3 and a half yr olds .. whats "normal behavoir'?

[Whispered]

Hi, My friend has a daugher, 3 and a half, i do like her, but sigh.. ARGHH...
her mom barely discplines her. Today I was driving in the car and she said ohh she's 3 , so its normal for her to SCREAM.. ??!!
I mean constantly make noises, EEEK , ACKK OOOK, like a monkey... seriously, whether w/ a friend, alone.. its hard enough just visting my friend.... but when driving and i'm partially deaf!! I finally screamed back, ( i realize and apolozied later, that this wasn't the right behavoir) but it was very difficult to drive, w/ all the screaming going on. I just wanted to shock her, lol which i did..

Her mom, has no control over her, its ridiculous watching her chase her, all over the apt courtyard, trying to catch her, to bring her inside. She can't take her, into stores, for very long.. She's still not potty trained.

No one will watch her, bc she won't listen to anyone..
Its been a looong day.
Is this normal??

My friend and I had a talk, before I had permission, to displine her, but, lol, after today she's decided noo, which is ok w/ me.. and we'll only drive in her car.. its just not fun. I like her daughter, i just really really wish
my friend believed in some control over her, she doesn't.. she thinks this is better for her.

So is this normal?
Does / or did your 3/4 yr old scream.. did you allow it, ??
How did you change it?

Did you chase your kid all over?

I know as a friend, i'm just going to have to deal w/ this, but Stories please!! :)
tia~ Help me out!! I pray for patience i guess~ I really want to enjoy the little girl, but all the loud noises, constantly and non displine... getting away w/ anything and everything is very trying.. frustrating!

Off to watch True Blood , that i can handle!!! lol

[sal987]

Don't know what to tell you, can only sympathize. I could see myself having the same reaction you did (screaming back), and like you, I'm not saying that was right behavior, but I can see where it gets to the point of enough is enough, and you have to let it out somehow. Kids -- gotta love 'em, but man alive, can they ever drive us batty sometimes!

Is the kid always like that? Hopefully it's just a stage, and she'll grow out of it.

[JulieDB]

My daughter didn't really scream at that age. Not that I can remember. She does now though! She'll be 13 soon. Ever since she was about 10 (and it is getting worse) she will just fly into a rage and scream at me. It's always about something I am doing wrong. And I am always doing something wrong, even if it is eating my dinner. That's right. I don't hold my hand or my fork right. My eyes look wrong. Don't open my mouth right. Don't chew right. She even demanded that I never order chili again! From what I have been told this is very common at this age. She doesn't usually scream in public. That's more at home. She also doesn't like to be told what to do.

She only ran around a few times. The second time she did it in a store she was probably 18 months. I couldn't catch her. Worse still she had a Tiki Torch and was brandishing it as a weapon, charging at the other Albertson's customers with it. Finally this woman dressed in an Army uniform came charging at her, grabbed her in one fell swoop and put her in the shopping cart seat. She handed me the Tiki Torch. I thanked her profusely.

Another time at home at around that same age, I took her outside to play. We lived in military housing at the time. There was a play area outside. I am diabetic. Began to feel unwell and thought I should go in to check my blood sugar. I tried to get her to come inside, but she wouldn't. Was just laughing and running from me. I remember chasing her for a while, then landing face down in the sand. Passed out from low blood sugar. She just sort of turned me over, looked very worried and said to me, "Is you blood low? You need canny?" I told her it was and I did. So she went into the house and got me some candy. She was very good after that. I think it really scared her.

As for making the goofy noises, that is not something she did until much later. I think perhaps it is normal for kids of that age because I remember doing it. Once. My parents didn't tolerate it. She started doing it after she went back to school at about age 8. I think she picked it up from someone at school. It was short lived.

As for the potty training, she was not trained until just before her 4th birthday. She does have food allergies though and I have read in that case the child can't always tell that they need to use the toilet because their stomach is in such turmoil most of the time anyway. At least hers was because her allergies weren't diagnosed until she was 6.

I do remember other kids of about that age who were wildly out of control though. One would grab toys from other children and often hit them with the toys. She could not be told "no" and would not listen to adults. As a result my daughter and her friends did not want to and were not allowed to play with her.

Another girl was one who had been in the hospital for about a year with cancer. As a result she didn't know how to deal with toys or actually any things whatever and couldn't relate to other people. Her mother worked with my husband and he brought her over a couple of times for me to babysit. The second time he did this, I put my foot down and said I would have nothing to do with her and he would have to babysit. Well that was the last time she came over!

The girl totally trashed our whole apartment. Pulling apart furniture, throwing toys everywhere. Throwing food, running wild through all the rooms and just making a huge horrible mess. My husband ended up taking the two girls to the park for the rest of the day.

I met the mother some time later and asked her how she was with her toys at home. The mother said she kept them locked up and only allowed her one toy at a time. I can see why!

My daughter does have some quirks though and this has caused trouble. She would never take liquid medicne. Never. Trying to get her to take it would cause bodily harm, usually to me or whoever was trying to give it to her. She has been swallowing pills since the age of two. The other thing she will not do is take a time out. When she was younger if you tried to put her in time out or even put her in her room she would cry loudly become out of control, hurling herself everywhere. If in her room she would bang on the door with her fists, hands and arms until they were bruised. She would pee on the floor and then throw up. It was horrible!

So... She wound up in the hospital once at about age three when she was at the neighbor's house. My husband was there but apparently not watching her. He said he had asked this teenaged girl to watch her but the girl told me he did not and I believe her. Anyway... The kids were jumping off the couch. And next to the couch was a very heavy, crudely made coffee table. She fell and hit her head hard on it. My friend who was there but did not live there, tried to give her liquid Tylenol. I had told her prior never to try to give her liquid meds. She didn't believe me. Daughter fought her hard, tooth and nail and nobody was able to get the med into her. Husband finally brought her home and she was hysterical. I wound up calling dial a nurse who told me to bring her to the hospital. Long story short the hysteria was caused by the attempting forcing of the liquid Tylenol.

Then the same friend who tried to give her the med was babysitting her while I went to an appointment. She had a little puppy. According to my friend, my daughter picked up a board and hit the puppy hard with it. I don't think she did any damage to the puppy but it certainly wasn't a good thing. My friend told her to apologize to the puppy and my daughter refused, saying she was all out of sorrys.

So my friend put her in the bathroom in timeout. She refused to stay in there so she wound up having her husband hold he door closed. I arrived to finding her beating on the door and screaming and hysterical. It wasn't a good thing at all.

And as behavior goes, my daughter was not much of a problem at two, but a terror at three. She questioned everything. Wanted to do everything her own way. Did not want to be told what to do or when to do it.

[3timesoccermom]

I do think everything you wrote is normal! My niece was a squealer too and it's definitely jarring but they get over it eventually.

If you want to distract the little one from something try whispering to her or pointing to something (of course if you're not the driver) and saying "look at ----." You can also find some interesting little doo dads for her to play with. Sometimes the simplest things are the best.

[CW&M Mom]

It's next to impossible to discipline inside a moving vehicle. Really if you think about it, unless you wanna hang out on the side of the road what you can threaten them with is something that will happen later. Anytime you threaten them with things that happen later...it doesn't work so well.

Potty training is not discipline issues. Many 3 year old's including my own are not potty trained.


When she runs in the courtyard is there a consequence when she gets her and brings her in? if there is no consequence that she follows through on then yes she needs to be more effective with that.

I hate taking my children, even my 9 year old with me to the store. It's boring for them, torture for me. And I consider my children reasonable well behaved.

In the car...is there stuff for her to do? Does she have music to listen to? Can you guys sing songs? books to look at ect? Has she considered that maybe she is a bit carsick and tried some Dramamine to see if that helps.

[saversavory]

So is this normal?
Does / or did your 3/4 yr old scream.. did you allow it, ??
How did you change it?

Did you chase your kid all over?


i have 3 girls. i had to chase at least 2 out of three of them at that age. scream? not really my eldests daughters voice cut right through me. it was the pitch i think , but it wasnt screaming, just when she went over a certain level. I didnt allow my kids to just wail for no reason. but they didnt think it was necessary either. normal babble, kid talk, etc is normal though.

potty training is a separate issue.

my kids were never that SCREAMING hysterical kid in the store you see and hear everywhere now. i thank god for that. i would never allow it, it would never happen. ive had to correct my children in the store actually very few times. my biggest issue is still with my kids running off on me ( my youngest is 11 now) so i guess thats normal. i tend to keep a leash on mine, unlike some other stuff i see going on in some stores.

i feel your pain, and ive had to deal with a situation much like yours before.

And ive been known to behave like you did in your own car in walmart. whent here is a wailing red faced brat 3 aisles over in walmart WAAAAH
WAAAH
WAHHH
WAAHHH
WAAHHHH!!!


i start to mimic it.

boy do they shut up and try to listen to who ELSE is crying.


i wonder why no parent has ever thanked me ROFL!

[amylynne01]

Wow. I was thinking that this behavior is not typical of a 3.5 yr old but of a parent who chooses not to discipline. My DD is 3.5, and she does not scream in the car. There are consequences for that. Screaming is allowed when we're at home, playing, outside, etc, not in the car, restaurant, store, someone else's home. It's not acceptable, and I won't have it. If she (and her sister) act up in the car, then the consequence is we don't get a carriage with a car at the store we're going to, DDs have to sit in the carriage instead of walking in the store, etc (depends on where we are and what we're doing).

I do not chase kids in a place. You don't listen to me -you sit in the carriage or hold my hand. Being able to roam more freely is a privilege that is earned, and for the most part, my kids are good at it. It only takes one reminder of "if you don't listen, you sit in the cart" for them to get it. I try really hard to teach them how to act not because mama wants them to, but because it's nice to share our toys, help our friends, and be kind to family.

My SIL and BIL do not discipline their kids who are 8 and 6. As a result of that, I do not like to be around their kids. They are whiny, annoying, mean, rude, disrespectful, and dishonest. They have absolute free reign with no consequences, just empty threats that have no follow through. My 6 year old nephew thinks it's perfectly acceptable to push my 3 and 2 yrs old around and steal their toys. Absolutely not. My kids don't do that because they know better.

It sounds like your friend doesn't know how to discipline, and this is a time when it's especially important. Children need boundaries of some sort. They need to be taught how to act in the world and how their actions affect other people. I tell my girls that we don't scream or yell in stores because no one else wants to hear it lol. So we're being respectful of the other shoppers, and they earn mommy's praise.

I really am not a controlling or mean mom. However, I expect my children to act appropriately, and I need to teach them that AND model that to them. There is a time and a place for running and laughing out loud and having crazy fun. And there is a time when my kids need to be on their best behavior.

For the record, I have been on the receiving end of a mega tantrum in public. We were at the air & space museum near Dulles airport last month, and DD2 decided to hit me because she was mad. She wasn't listening to me - running off, not holding hands, etc, so I picked her up and said "if you can't listen, I will hold you". So she whacked me right in the face and proceeded to have a meltdown. Of course this was when my DH and parents were off at the iMax show, and I said "oh I'll be fine with the girls. Go enjoy the show" lol. I was embarassed, humiliated, and so disappointed in her, and it kind of ruined the day for me. I couldn't imagine feeling like that all the time if I choose to do nothing about her behavior ever.

[momof2inohio]

I agree amylynne. When my kids were that age they were not screamers. If they started to throw a temper tantrum out in public we would promptly go to the car. They could finish throwing their tantrum there while not disturbing others. As soon as they were done we went right back to what we were doing. I only had to do this a couple of times and that was it. They knew they were not going to get their way or get to leave if they started a tantrum.

Luckily we were able to take our kids just about anywhere with us when we were little. We would take them to nice restaurants as toddlers and they were able to behave.

OP I would be annoyed as well. Temper tantrums happen with any kids but when it happens all the time that is a problem with discipline.

[clippyclippy]

Oh my.
Normal? Sadly it probably is becoming more so.
Acceptable? No.

You can't let kids lead you on a chase. Make it absolutely clear to them that causing mom to chase you is not going to be tolerated.

Why? Because if you are chasing them, then they are in control of where they are going. Little kids are impulsive and safety is not on their minds when they are gleefully running ahead of a parent. What may be frustrating in a store is deadly when there's a road nearby.
If my kids ever broke loose and didn't behave by staying at my side, then they either rode in the buggy or had to hold my hand. No exceptions.

Crying in a car is something that might be unavoidable with 2yr olds or younger, but by 3 they can be disciplined effectively to learn that that is unacceptable.

Unfortunately parents these days find themselves trying to keep kids happy, and appeasing them rather than firmly guiding them to appropriate behavior.

A child in a car may think they have the upper hand if they think the parent can't do anything about it. They are strapped in their seat, the car is moving and mom or dad will put up with the screaming rather than disciplining appropriately.

A future consequence isn't going to work too well for a 3 year old - it needs to be immediate and effective. I remember stopping at the side of the road, or pulling into a parking lot and giving a quick swat on the tush a few times.
I know I might get some flack for that, but I really think we're trading in a few stings on the butt for a generation of rude, disrespectful kids who know their parents really can't do anything about it.

Now, I don't want to leave the impression that my kids learned the first time to behave each and every time- goodness no. It's exhausting to be consistent - so much easier to let things slide, but you aren't doing a kid any favors that way.

[Whispered]

hi guys, i appreciate the replies and stories. Clippyclipp, EXactly what i was trying to say.. if one doesn't start to disipline ones child, and never says no.. they just get out of control. Its not really neccessary, to be sreaming in the car, for 2 hrs, ya know? making noises, EEk shrieking,
screeching..EEEEKk..ACCCKK OOK
I had reached my limit (actually wayy past that day) lol
...........

This wasn't a temper tamtrum. This is how she "normally talks~ converses" in lots of screams, noises and yes she can talk, but she rather shriek.
I'm over 50 % deaf both ears... Really DEAF ok? lol.. So she is just LOUD!!... obnoixiously so..
Her mom has said, she just hates saying, no, argh.

I've just become friends w/ her mom, within the last couple months, i really don't know much , about kids to be honest. I do know, I don't want this to ruin the friendship. Yesterday, i brought my friend a starbucks latte and her daugher a balloon, (she loves balloons) for an apology.. also i did notice for the very very first time, my friend was telling her daugher not to scream!! ( my friends still a bit upset w/ me, oh well).
( I know she'd been talking to her other friend, who found it funny).

There just isn't much disipline, like another example, when i was over, eating soup, off a tv dinner tray, her daugher went under the tray and kept banging under it and i asked her not to do that, that it wasn't safe..
her mom , did nothing. Thats just one of tons of examples, besides running loose in the streets and parking lots, theres no hand holding, or manners in stores. I'm going to just have to try to learn more acceptance, i like the little girl... somethings are just harder to deal w/ then others. I just wish the mom would realize you CAN teach your kids to be disiplined.. to an extent, w/o being harsh or punishing.

Before this incident, I had her, for one hr, and used the nanny 911, trick of the time out, in the corner.. boy she didn't like that! But on the 2nd time, she came out herself and put away the crayons herself .

We had read, then colored, then she wanted to do something else and i was ok, we have to put away the crayons and she just wouldn't do that, and i knew she was capable of that. So i explained what the consquenses were..to do something else next fun, like decorate the tree, or another game but the crayons had to be put away first, if not, then it was in the corner... she got all pouty, lol and crossed her arms and said no. I said ok, into the corner. She was there about 3 mins , the sneaked out, and crawled over to me and my cat and thought she could charm me, ha, nope, this time i had to gently place her back in the corner, repeat again, the rules, make sure she was facing the corner, so no distractions.
She knew I wasn't going to mess around and yep, this method really works, i was nicely surprised, to see her just come out of the corner, put away the crayons. Then we just went and decorated the tree.

Its true, you have to have fun time, but also have a set limit of rules..imo.. I just know I won't be the one watching her and i'm fine w/ that.