The official Duggar family discussion thread!

[CW&M Mom]

A sin is a sin is a sin. All sins are equal in that they all cause a person to fall short of the glory of God. You might face different judgements come judgement day based on the type of sins you commit, however in its simplest form all sin is equal.

Well considering polygamy in the bible was practiced by the prophets the polgymists argue that they are doing what they are supposed to be doing (not that I am advocating for polygamy...but I find it ironic when people say that polygamy is a sin..they forget it was a common practice in the bible).

And IMO actually not all sin is equal. Murder is a sin that cannot be repaired, fixed, amend for. Rape, Sexual abuse ect I cannot take back what I have done.

however when I steal money from someone I can give back what I have done. I can make amends. Their are sins that for eternity (aka Murder) people will be paying for because even forfeiting their life here they are only beginning to repent of it. So no...not all sin is the same. The man stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family is not the same as a Man raping his neighbor. Not the same kind of sin, not the same kind of punishment. The New Testament in the Parables actually shows this often. The man stealing the loaf of bread will probably feel very bad and try and find a way to make up for it, or get caught and the person realizing he's just trying to feed his family will show mercy.

[Smee]

There's a thread already dedicated to "Sister Wives" ...

That's the point I was making. I did not detect the level of vehement defense in that thread, regarding, "well, as long as they really believe in what they're doing and it's under an umbrella of Christianity, it's all good to me," even with the disclaimer of, "not for me, but rock on."

To be clear, I'm very much about live and let live, and that applies to Lotta Kids and Lotta Wives and Lotta Nuts (Westboro) equally. It's just that I detect inconsistencies between some of what is being said and some of what has been said or shown in the past. It is not my aim to try to challenge anyone's actual faith.

[ScrappyDoo]

Well considering polygamy in the bible was practiced by the prophets the polgymists argue that they are doing what they are supposed to be doing (not that I am advocating for polygamy...but I find it ironic when people say that polygamy is a sin..they forget it was a common practice in the bible).

And IMO actually not all sin is equal. Murder is a sin that cannot be repaired, fixed, amend for. Rape, Sexual abuse ect I cannot take back what I have done.

however when I steal money from someone I can give back what I have done. I can make amends. Their are sins that for eternity (aka Murder) people will be paying for because even forfeiting their life here they are only beginning to repent of it. So no...not all sin is the same. The man stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family is not the same as a Man raping his neighbor. Not the same kind of sin, not the same kind of punishment. The New Testament in the Parables actually shows this often. The man stealing the loaf of bread will probably feel very bad and try and find a way to make up for it, or get caught and the person realizing he's just trying to feed his family will show mercy.

I agree. I don't necessarily think Polygamy is a sin (I'm not sure what I think of it actually) I was only pointing out that sin is sin from a biblical standpoint. I do agree that sins such as murder/rape etc. are worse from a societal standpoint than stealing a loaf of bread, however IMO we will face judgement from God for all of our sins, not just the "bad " ones. I am CERTAINLY not condoning murder/rape/etc. I was just illustrating a point that all sin dissapoints God.

[CW&M Mom]

I agree. I don't necessarily think Polygamy is a sin (I'm not sure what I think of it actually) I was only pointing out that sin is sin from a biblical standpoint. I do agree that sins such as murder/rape etc. are worse from a societal standpoint than stealing a loaf of bread, however IMO we will face judgement from God for all of our sins, not just the "bad " ones. I am CERTAINLY not condoning murder/rape/etc. I was just illustrating a point that all sin dissapoints God.

I think stealing a loaf of bread disappoints God. I think murdering some random person because you have some icky fetish...God no longer is disappointed in you..but instead, I'm not sure..you've gone to a whole nother level that I never want to know. Anger? vengeance? fury?

I think it's very much like we as parents..where we have that line in the sand that we draw..and there are things that can cross it that are that bad.

[cupunlvr]

Just curious, meggers, do you similarly relate to and respect the Holy Crap That's A Lot Of Wives people since their practices are presumably a reflection of their devout religious beliefs? How about Westboro? It seems like the Sister Wives people don't get the same level defense and empathy in discussions just for being devoutly religious (not that I care, just an observation).

Excellent point Smee!

The way I see it is.......if you want others to respect your beliefs then show respect for their beliefs.......I don't see much of that around here?

[IntoTheMystic]

To be clear, I'm very much about live and let live, and that applies to Lotta Kids and Lotta Wives and Lotta Nuts (Westboro) equally. It's just that I detect inconsistencies between some of what is being said and some of what has been said or shown in the past. It is not my aim to try to challenge anyone's actual faith.

Smee, I think I love you. And now, I am deleting this thread from my discussions so that I don't get dragged back in, AGAIN.

[clippyclippy]

Julie, I'm the one who said a person is better off when they allow God to control their life, rather than trying to control it themselves.

Maybe I could have said it in a different way- I don't believe at all that a person should just sit back and expect God to just make things happen.
I meant that God does have a plan for each of our lives. If we recognize that, and seek His will, He will lead us as much as we allow Him too.

He loves us and knows what is best for us. We can accept that, or we can disregard Him and do our own thing.
Doing one's own thing never works out as well.

[JulieDB]

I did NOT say she did not get pregnant on purpose. My exact quote was "She's not doing anything to purposely put herself or a child in jeopardy."

IOW, she was not getting pregnant with the intention of not carrying a child to term, and she wasn't doing anything to PROMOTE an unhealthy pregnancy (drinking, smoking, etc) She also got pregnant NATURALLY, not with the use in IVF or other unnatural means. She just let what happens happen naturally. That is leaving it up to God.

I also don't think anyone here has said that people SHOULD NOT be in control of their lives. People have just been defending other's right to let GOD be in control of their lives. Some people would rather control their own lives and some people would rather be led by God. Some would like to let God control some parts while they control others. As far as conception, I believe God is always in control, even when people do try to control it. That explains the numerous conceptions despite birth control, and the numerous non-pregnancies despite medical science trying to help.

It's kinda ironic that you said you are taken aback that someone said we should not be in control of our lives, and also that Michelle didn't get pregnant on purpose. If you think we should be in control of our lives and if Michelle WANTS another child, shouldn't she have the right to control her own life and HAVE more children if she wants? Yet you think she shouldn't have more, therefore taking away her right to control her own reproduction rights.

When she is choosing to have a child at that age, that is *not* taking control of her life. That is throwing caution to the wind!

[JulieDB]

Actually, this is wrong. Most of the things they believe do in fact come from scriptures in the Bible. The way they interpret the Bible is different than the way I do...but, the dress and hair is based on scriptures that say that a woman should dress moderately and like a woman not a man and that her hair should be her glory. You said yourself that you interpret that to mean no perming, no cutting hair or wearing makeup etc. Just because the Duggars interpret it differently than you...that doesn't mean that their interpretation is wrong or that it doesn't come from the Bible.

LOL, C&Wmom about Ultra Christians...I've never heard that term before. Here, most are called Pentecostal because that is the name of their denominational church. (Well, the majority anyway. There are some strict Baptists and a few others, but the ones around here are mostly Pentecostal.) I have heard them called other names like Holy Rollers or even worse--"Bun Heads" beause of the way many of them wear their hair.

While I am a Christian, I don't necessarily interpret the Bible the same way as the Duggars or the Sister Wives or even other denominations of "The Christian Church." BUT, I absolutely do believe in religious diversity and the right to practice religion according to your own personal beliefs and interpretations of religion or God. I don't care if it is Christian, Catholic, Jewish, Morman or even Muslim...who am I to belittle what any group of people hold to be the very fundamental truths of their existence?!

Even though I don't really get the whole plural wife thing, it is in fact Biblical, too. In the Old Testament, there are more than a couple of stories of men who had multiple wives. So, I don't have any problem with the Duggars or the Sister Wives living according to their interpretation of the Bible. I watch the Sister Wives, like the show and will also stand up for them and defend their right to be who they are and interpret the Bible however they choose. In fact, I would go further and say that the laws that make polygamy illegal are unconstitutional as it applies to them because it violates their right to religious freedom. Polygamy...in a case where a man has wives that don't know about each other is and should be illegal. But, when practiced the way it is in the show Sister Wives, it is a religious belief. It is both Biblical and historical not just in our country but many other nations around the world. We as Americans like to promote that our founding fathers came and built our society, constituion and government on principles of religious freedom. Those rights should apply equally to all citizens and all religions.

I'm saying it didn't come from the bible because Michelle herself said it didn't. She said the chose that way because she felt it woud please God!

I never said anything about not cutting hair. Michelle and the girls said they do that because Jim Bob likes it.

Honestly I feel that the show I am watching is not the show some of you are watching!

[clippyclippy]

I respect people of different religions, and I completely defend their right to talk about their faith and beliefs. Obviously though, I wouldn't defend their specific beliefs, just their right to talk about them.

There's a thread already dedicated to "Sister Wives" and I believe meggars and I have about the same opinion. It's not for us, but we don't necessarily find it conflicting with Biblical standards.

I agree. I don't necessarily think Polygamy is a sin (I'm not sure what I think of it actually)

Well considering polygamy in the bible was practiced by the prophets the polgymists argue that they are doing what they are supposed to be doing (not that I am advocating for polygamy...but I find it ironic when people say that polygamy is a sin..they forget it was a common practice in the bible).

I don't watch the Sister Wives show either, but I'm surprised at the comments here regarding polygamy. The families on that show are following a different religion altogether, not Christianity. So I don't expect them to follow Biblical teachings.

I do indeed believe polygamy is condemned by scripture, both in the Old Testament and New.
Specific passages do address this, I just can't quote them here.

There are numerous cases of polygamy in the Old Testament, but those were accepted by the culture- not by God, and never part of His perfect plan.

The Bible doesn't showcase perfect people who obeyed God throughout their lives, as examples to us to follow, rather, it gives a real picture of humankind in all their faults, in order that we can clearly see God's grace and mercy.

Polygamy was one of those things that went against God's pattern of one man and one woman becoming one flesh from the very beginning, in Genesis, and reaffirmed in the New Testament.

(By the way there were no prophets who practiced Polygamy. The kings and the early patriarchs were the more well known examples)