I can NOT get over this - the 14 year old in Bangladesh

[bali1228]

in reference to your post "religion of peace...sure"....you have to remember just like any religion, you have your extremes....we call them cults here doing things in the name of god (brainwashing, marriage to teens, hoarding guns to take on the govt)....the muslim culture also has their extremes....they also have the other side that do not believe in the arranged marriage, killing in the name of honor etc....and the other side is actually bigger then the extremes.....

Right, the only difference is that when some whack job Christian goes off the deep-end. The rest of us will stand up and say, he does not speak for us. He is not what a christian is. That is a cult offshoot to our religion and we do not recognize him as part of our church. Like the Mormons do with that nutbar Warren Jeffs. You don't see that very much in the Muslim world. Their silence speaks volumes. I am in complete disagreement with you that there are more moderates than fundamentalists. I've known many Muslims in my life, as well as people that lived abroad in Muslim countries and I have to say that their way of thinking is NOTHING like our own. Again, the subjugation of women is unacceptable in todays world. Telling woman that they must cover all of themselves because men cannot control themselves just leads to incidents like this one. Men that are not held to account for their actions, because they caught a glimpse of a cousins daughters hair or skin? Disgusting.....

[CW&M Mom]

I don't think many people thought abusing children in the 70's was okay. I remember a case in the 60's where the man was sent to prison for abusing his kids. Women were blamed back then for dressing to suggestively. Once women were unafraid to say what happened to them things became better. That is not likely to happen anytime soon in some cultures. Sharia law is a very scary thing and women always come out badly in these cases.

They often blamed the wife of the perpetrator for his actions...is what I said.

and actually if you really look at the nitty gritty details of children abused in particular sexually by there fathers/boyfriends with the wife's knowing, and doing nothing...the mother actually often blames her children for seducing there father/boyfriend ...AND this is still going on.

[CW&M Mom]

Right, the only difference is that when some whack job Christian goes off the deep-end. The rest of us will stand up and say, he does not speak for us. He is not what a christian is. That is a cult offshoot to our religion and we do not recognize him as part of our church. Like the Mormons do with that nutbar Warren Jeffs. You don't see that very much in the Muslim world. Their silence speaks volumes. I am in complete disagreement with you that there are more moderates than fundamentalists. I've known many Muslims in my life, as well as people that lived abroad in Muslim countries and I have to say that their way of thinking is NOTHING like our own. Again, the subjugation of women is unacceptable in todays world. Telling woman that they must cover all of themselves because men cannot control themselves just leads to incidents like this one. Men that are not held to account for their actions, because they caught a glimpse of a cousins daughters hair or skin? Disgusting.....

It's hard in many situations where these people are not really in a free country and know they face fierce retribution if they speak out.

Until they become brave enough to stand up for themselves...this will continue.

[Goldie]

:( No good...

[motherofmolly]

Right, the only difference is that when some whack job Christian goes off the deep-end. The rest of us will stand up and say, he does not speak for us. He is not what a christian is. That is a cult offshoot to our religion and we do not recognize him as part of our church. Like the Mormons do with that nutbar Warren Jeffs. You don't see that very much in the Muslim world. Their silence speaks volumes. I am in complete disagreement with you that there are more moderates than fundamentalists. I've known many Muslims in my life, as well as people that lived abroad in Muslim countries and I have to say that their way of thinking is NOTHING like our own. Again, the subjugation of women is unacceptable in todays world. Telling woman that they must cover all of themselves because men cannot control themselves just leads to incidents like this one. Men that are not held to account for their actions, because they caught a glimpse of a cousins daughters hair or skin? Disgusting.....

i too know many muslims and know many that have lived there and visited there numerous times. just like any place, you have your "extremes"...extremes tend to flock to the same place....then you will have your not so extremes....i do not agree with your generalization of the muslim culture.

the covering up is only done in certain areas...not all...and a good majority of women do it because they chose to do it, not because they are told. and some of the "covering up" of skin is not a bad thing...my friend goes ever summer to jordan , eqypt, and a few other places there...it is not proper for women or girls to wear the low cut shirts, short shorts or skirts. what exactly is wrong with that? my friend (white female) wears shorts and tshirts and a bathing suit while visiting. her husband is muslim...their daughter is mixed...the daughter wears shorts (not short short), appropriate skirts (right above the knee) and short sleeve shirts....i agree with their choice of clothing for their daughter-we need to look at some (some not all) of this ourselves as the revealing clothes worn by many now is yucky.

[bali1228]

I don't have trouble with modest clothing choices. I DO have a problem with the tribal customs (as opposed to religious edicts) that are in place in most Muslim countries. Say I adopt their way of practicing modesty? So when my DD gets her first period, I should announce to the world she's ready to breed by making her cover her hair in public? And if we take a family vacation to Disney she is to wear a long coat over her jeans and long sleeve shirt and suffer the heat because someone might see her ankle or wrist...or a lock of hair maybe? I didn't say all Muslims are extremists. That's like saying all terrorist are Muslim which is also untrue (I worked across the street from a known IRA bar, so I know) .
An example of the Muslim worlds silence regarding human rights violations. My friend is from the Philippines, and like many Filipinos worked in the UAE and other Arab gulf countries when she finished school (she had to flee with her daughter to the States, so that her Dutch boyfriend couldn't take the baby and raise her with his new girlfriend. The law would have allowed him to keep her from having any access to the child.). She shared with me that when Saddam Hussein was gassing Kurds, they would air footage of them using bulldozers to push thousands of bodies into mass graves on TV. No one spoke out about it and no one leaked the footage to the west. No one cared about dead Kurds and they are Muslims. Do you think they care about you, me or their own women anymore then ethnic minority Kurds? The answer is no they don't. Some don't speak out because of fear, but what about the leaders of Islamic States? What about the Imam's? Tribal elders? Anyone? Most moderate Muslims live here, not there, so they don't have to worry about it, but many still won't speak up......
I think there are many fine Muslim people. I have enjoyed their friendship and even a romantic relationship. But as a whole, the concern for the welfare of non-Muslims is not there (in my experience).

[skimo]

Well, my mouth has lost it's filter this week, so here I go......

In my opinion, in many Muslim countries, women are viewed as nothing more than talking dogs & are treated as such.

I recall in the latter part of 1990 when the Gulf War was kicking off, I was in the Air Force & stationed in England. My job was working inertial navigation of the F-111's and our subsection (just navigation) was deployed to Saudi. The guys who went over for the first rotation wrote back and stated that the Saudi's made it very clear they would NOT work side by side any females, and if the USAF chose to send over females to work this section, that the shop would have to move away from the others........and no "good areas" with AC were left.

Yeah...so if the beliefs & opinions of women are so strongly dismal that wartime doesn't influence them, then what will? Again, all my opinion.....

[CW&M Mom]

Well, my mouth has lost it's filter this week, so here I go......

In my opinion, in many Muslim countries, women are viewed as nothing more than talking dogs & are treated as such.

I recall in the latter part of 1990 when the Gulf War was kicking off, I was in the Air Force & stationed in England. My job was working inertial navigation of the F-111's and our subsection (just navigation) was deployed to Saudi. The guys who went over for the first rotation wrote back and stated that the Saudi's made it very clear they would NOT work side by side any females, and if the USAF chose to send over females to work this section, that the shop would have to move away from the others........and no "good areas" with AC were left.

Yeah...so if the beliefs & opinions of women are so strongly dismal that wartime doesn't influence them, then what will? Again, all my opinion.....

I think it's very hard for us to sit there and watch it knowing that we as woman should not be treated that way.

200 years ago in our country...we weren't treated any better then they are. It is very frustrating to see it and know it is completely ridiculous and unnecessary.

[3timesoccermom]

Well said skimo! Nothing you said needs to be filtered!

Seeing how poorly females are treated elsewhere in the world really makes you appreciate all the work women before us did to gain rights for us.

[bali1228]

I think it's very hard for us to sit there and watch it knowing that we as woman should not be treated that way.

200 years ago in our country...we weren't treated any better then they are. It is very frustrating to see it and know it is completely ridiculous and unnecessary.

But it's NOT 200 years ago! And I still think you would have been hard pressed to find women treated as poorly as they are in most Muslim countries today. Women were oppressed, no doubt. But fathers didn't drown their daughter in the backyard pool to save the family honor, because she was rumored to have been seen in the company of a non-related male in public, or heaven forbid, a rape victim. Gimme a break, I can be as tolerant as the next person, but this is just wrong.
Let me frame this in a different way. African slavery was a big part of American culture a few hundred years ago. The prosperity of this nation was essentially built on the backs of African-American slaves. I think we can all say that despite the cultural acceptance and financial benefits of slavery to this country, that oppressing an entire race of people (and it was a new race that was created when white slave masters started breeding with Africans) was shameful and wrong! There is no way to soften it or make it OK. People in this country knew this, and it brought about a civil war( in part). If our counterparts from 200 years ago could figure this out, so can they. The very same arguments used to justify the keeping of slaves in Antebellum America, are used in Islamic countries to justify the oppression of women today. Thank goodness there were people willing to risk their lives to stand up and be abolitionists.They literally risked their lives, because white or not, if you were found to be harboring slaves you were risking death or complete financial ruin. I wonder how different our history would be, if those people just turned their heads and mumbled "We need to tolerant of their religious and cultural practices" ?