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National debt-reduction proposal....thoughts? So all this talk about the fair tax and how our economy blows and how the Democrats have blown the national debt through the roof lead me to question just how serious Americans are about buckling down and helping to reduce our national debt. As a country, we want our entitlements, but don't want to give them up in order to cut costs.
Alan K. Simpson, a former Republican senator from Wyoming, and Erskine Bowles, who served as White House chief of staff in the Clinton administration have come up with a proposal to slash the national debt. They left nothing untouched, which of course has people from both sides of the aisle in an uproar. Most notably, they want to drastically cut defense spending.
Now keep in mind, these are only their ideas. The plan has to get approval from at least 14 of 18 members of the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, which is highly unlikely. Again... we want to reduce the debt but don't really want to buckle down...
The commission leaders said that, at present, federal revenue is fully consumed by three programs: Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. "The rest of the federal government, including fighting two wars, homeland security, education, art, culture, you name it, veterans -- the whole rest of the discretionary budget is being financed by China and other countries," Simpson said.
Pulled from the Co-chairs' Proposal:
Five Part Plan:
Our plan makes five basic recommendations:
1. Enact tough discretionary spending caps and provide $200 billion in illustrative domestic and defense savings in 2015.
2. Pass tax reform that dramatically reduces rates, simplifies the code, broadens the base, and reduces the deficit.
3. Address the "Doc Fix" not through deficit spending but through savings from payment reforms, cost-sharing, and malpractice reform, and long-term measures to control health care cost growth.
4. Achieve mandatory savings from farm subsidies, military and civil service retirement.
5. Ensure Social Security solvency for the next 75 years while reducing poverty among seniors.
These guys also came up with a plan to cut $215 billion by 2015:
Domestic - 100.2 billion
Defense - 100.1 billion
Total - 200.3 billion
Domestic:
Reduce Congressional & White House budgets by 15 percent.
Freeze federal salaries, bonuses, and other compensation at non-defense agencies for three years.
Cap the number of federal political appointments at 2,000.
Cut federal travel budget.
Establish Veterans Administration (VA) health co-pays.
Slow the growth of foreign aid.
Eliminate the Office of Safe & Drug Free Schools.
Eliminate the Economic Development Administration.
Eliminate all earmarks
Cut research funding for fossil fuels
Eliminate funding to private sector for spaceflight developments
Drop wealthier communities from the Community Development Block Grant program
Reduce voluntary contributions to the United Nations
Eliminate administrative fees paid to schools for student aid programs
Eliminate the Overseas Private Investment Corporation
Reduce funding to the Smithsonian and the National Park Service and allow the programs to offset the reduction through fees
Cut funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting
Require food processing facilities to finance food safety and inspection services
Require airports to fund a larger portion of the cost of aviation security.
Create a more cohesive and cost-effective fire management service
Freeze federal salaries, bonuses, and other compensation for the civilian workforce at the Department of Defense for three years
Military/Defense:
Freeze non-combat military pay at 2011 levels for 3 years
Double Secretary Gates’ cuts to defense contracting
Reduce procurement by 15 percent
End procurement of the V-22 Osprey
Cancel the Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle
Substitute F-16 and F/A-18Es for half of the Air Force and Navy’s planned buys of F-35 fighter aircraft.
Cancel the Marine Corps version of the F-35
Cancel the Navy’s Future Maritime Prepositioning Force
Cancel the new Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV), the Ground Combat Vehicle, and the Joint Tactical Radio
Reduce planned levels for "Other Procurement."
Reduce military personnel stationed at overseas bases in Europe and Asia by one-third
Modernize Tricare, DOD health
Replace military personnel performing commercial activities with civilian
Reduce spending on Research, Development, Test & Evaluation by 10 percent
Reduce spending on base support
Reduce spending on facilities maintenance
Consolidate the Department of Defense’s retail activities
Integrate children of military personnel into local schools in the United States
Agree? Disagree? Have your own better ideas?? Would you agree with the plan going through as is??
Re: National debt-reduction proposal....thoughts? Interesting. I have to admit I don't know a lot about this plan, but if they are trying to batten down the hatches, tighten the belt, put their money where their mouth is...I'm all for it. I'm thinking, like you, that it probably isn't going to fly. But, at least they have put some effort into it this time. A step in the right direction, maybe?
Re: National debt-reduction proposal....thoughts? I want congress trimmed. There salaries, there insurance benefits...there pensions and any xtra's that get spent for them to "do business" I want to be combed over with a fine tooth comb.Originally Posted by kval07
Pulled from the Co-chairs' Proposal:
Five Part Plan:
Our plan makes five basic recommendations:
1. Enact tough discretionary spending caps and provide $200 billion in illustrative domestic and defense savings in 2015.
2. Pass tax reform that dramatically reduces rates, simplifies the code, broadens the base, and reduces the deficit.
3. Address the "Doc Fix" not through deficit spending but through savings from payment reforms, cost-sharing, and malpractice reform, and long-term measures to control health care cost growth.
4. Achieve mandatory savings from farm subsidies, military and civil service retirement.
5. Ensure Social Security solvency for the next 75 years while reducing poverty among seniors.
These guys also came up with a plan to cut $215 billion by 2015:
Domestic - 100.2 billion
Defense - 100.1 billion
Total - 200.3 billion
Domestic:
Reduce Congressional & White House budgets by 15 percent. sure
Freeze federal salaries, bonuses, and other compensation at non-defense agencies for three years. sure
Cap the number of federal political appointments at 2,000. sure
Cut federal travel budget. ok
Establish Veterans Administration (VA) health co-pays. *personally think they should close the VA hospitals that primarily service our older vets..and put them into local hospitals that are better. I'm not okay with severely wounded vets needing to pay a lot of copays each month...maybe cap it at a number??????
Slow the growth of foreign aid. I guess
Eliminate the Office of Safe & Drug Free Schools. didn't even knew he had one
Eliminate the Economic Development Administration. ?? seems like the wrong thing to do during a recession
Eliminate all earmarks I guess
Cut research funding for fossil fuels ok
Eliminate funding to private sector for spaceflight developments sure
Drop wealthier communities from the Community Development Block Grant program I would have to see the numbers as what they would consider wealthy...and would need to know if this included head start.
Reduce voluntary contributions to the United Nations ok
Eliminate administrative fees paid to schools for student aid programs I guess
Eliminate the Overseas Private Investment Corporation have no idea what that is.
Reduce funding to the Smithsonian and the National Park Service and allow the programs to offset the reduction through fees sounds fabulous.
Cut funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting I want children's programing to stay intact...everything else (including NPR) can get the ax.
Require food processing facilities to finance food safety and inspection services I don't remotely trust companies to inspect themselves when it comes to our food.
Require airports to fund a larger portion of the cost of aviation security. we tried this before...it helped cause 9 11
Create a more cohesive and cost-effective fire management service ok
Freeze federal salaries, bonuses, and other compensation for the civilian workforce at the Department of Defense for three years only civilian??
Military/Defense:
Freeze non-combat military pay at 2011 levels for 3 years ok
Double Secretary Gates’ cuts to defense contracting ok
Reduce procurement by 15 percent not sure what that is
End procurement of the V-22 Osprey I don't know...would have to look into that.
Cancel the Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle what is this?
Substitute F-16 and F/A-18Es for half of the Air Force and Navy’s planned buys of F-35 fighter aircraft. again..I might agree..someone explain to me why.
Cancel the Marine Corps version of the F-35 ??
Cancel the Navy’s Future Maritime Prepositioning Force ??
Cancel the new Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV), the Ground Combat Vehicle, and the Joint Tactical Radio ??
Reduce planned levels for "Other Procurement."
Reduce military personnel stationed at overseas bases in Europe and Asia by one-third yes to europe...not so yes to Asia
Modernize Tricare, DOD health yes
Replace military personnel performing commercial activities with civilian sure
Reduce spending on Research, Development, Test & Evaluation by 10 percent maybe??
Reduce spending on base support I don't know
Reduce spending on facilities maintenance depends
Consolidate the Department of Defense’s retail activities ok
Integrate children of military personnel into local schools in the United States maybe. It might be cheaper to work with the districts...and some may be so rural..that it might not be feasable.
Agree? Disagree? Have your own better ideas?? Would you agree with the plan going through as is??
I personally also want medicare to have a much more broader palliative care program. Where certain dx or certain issues would get you automatically put in palliative care. So as an example...the diabetic...at age 65 goes to palliative care. That doesn't mean hospice. But palliative care not exactly dictate what surgery's (as an example) a diabetic can have...but at what conditions it can be done...to keep the diabetic as safe through the procedure as possible...with the highest outcome of success. The reason why I say this. Is looking at what happened with my grandfather...if he had been in palliative care...they would not of allowed him to have his gal bladder out and sent home the same day..and be told to not come back til a week later...no matter how much pain he was in.
That stupid idiotic decision cost the government over one million dollars in medical bills because he went septic.
Also IMO at certain ages, certain dx, certain issues...need to be dealt with palliative care because sometimes families get too zealot over what is appropriate care for someone dying.
ex: a friend of mine father had Alzheimer. Well he was starving himself. This is typically how they die. She demanded that a feeding tube (permanent) get placed...so they did. all that cost for a feeding tube (not to mention the pain he was put through)..and he still died 10 days later. IMO it was an extreme request and one that should not of been allowed....if pallative care had been involved. They are better equipped to sit families down and make it clear this is terminal and nothing more can be done other than pain and comfort measures. I'm not saying every 65 year old...should be placed in palliative care. But not only does palliative care demand ethical treatment, quality of life treatment...but often is much much cheaper because they avoid complications because they anticipate better what "normally" happens with someone in that health. They also are better at managing patients in home or nursing homes..vs just having them live in the hospital.
I also want to note in a general sense...that I do not believe that deflation will actually ever help a recession or depression. But what money we do bring in...should be spent wisely not spent on crap just to spend it.
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Re: National debt-reduction proposal....thoughts? *edit* sorry wasn't my grandfather was my FIL
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Re: National debt-reduction proposal....thoughts? I will comment on one portion, which I agree with-Require food processing facilities to finance food safety and inspection services (at least partially). Costs are fairly high for food inspection services that are provided. Meat processing plants are inspected DAILY, yet no costs beyond premium services (overtime, hours worked on a holiday, etc) are paid by the firms. Not only are they inspected daily, but samples are also taken and tested without cost to the firm on a regular basis.
In non-meat firms, they aren't inspected as often (because of the way the regulation is written and the lack of staffing), but there are many more out there. In my state, everybody in the business of manufacturing or wholesaling food is required to be licensed, which does provide some revenue for inspection services. Fees are on a sliding scale based on annual sales. That's every business from the local gas station that bags their own ice, to large bakeries and beyond. There isn't enough time in the year to inspect every firm who is licensed without hiring many new employees. And that's just the licensed places-so many people are flying under the radar. Without some extra revenue-well, we can only do the best we can with the resources available. In full disclosure, we do inspections based on risk, so it's not like we just ignore high risk firms and let them do as they please.
But that's just my .02.
Re: National debt-reduction proposal....thoughts? Well, I don't think Obama 'made it happen' at least not yet anyway. But, being one of those fence riders, a liberal conservative or conservative liberal... I figure if they really do make the cutbacks I'll be good with it, regardless of who started it.
Re: National debt-reduction proposal....thoughts? Cori - there is more detail on the proposals in the plan to cut $200 billion link. I didn't add details, even though I knew some of it is pertinent just because it'd be too much to post.
The copay for VA - page 4
This option would increase out-of-pocket costs for veterans in Priority Group 5 — those who do not have service-connected disabilities and whose income is below a VA-defined threshold. Currently, those patients pay no fees for inpatient or outpatient medical care. This option requires co-payments for medical care provided by the Department of Veterans Affairs to these enrollees, saving $0.7 billion in 2014.
**This one I am okay with.
Eliminate the Economic Development Administration - page 7
Drop wealthier communities from the Community Development Block Grant program - page 10
The Community Development Block Grant program allocates funds according to a formula based on a community’s population. A 2003 study by the Department of Housing and
Urban Development showed that funding under the program shifted from poorer to wealthier communities as a result of the current formula. The argument for having federal grants go toward development in wealthier communities is thin. This option would first change the formula for calculating grants in order to target needier areas and limit grants to wealthier communities. The funding for the program would then be reduced by 20 percent, saving just over $500 million in 2015.
Require food processing facilities to finance food safety and inspection services - page 13
This option finances all federal inspections of meat and poultry products with fees paid by the processing facilities, thereby making the service paid for by those who use it.
I didn't see much detail about SS, Medicare and Medicaid. That was what I was really wanting to see since those are our whole budget.
Re: National debt-reduction proposal....thoughts? What I mean is he is the one that had this committee come up with a plan. Not saying its gonna get passed, because I'd bet every paycheck I'll ever get it won't. But he is the one that put the committee up to coming up with ideas.
Re: National debt-reduction proposal....thoughts? Kval can you go through the military stuff and we get your take on it..(or heck even explain what it all is).
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