CVS manager chokes shoplifter...to death...

[motherofmolly]

I read the Huffington post coverage and it was missing a lot of information which is too typical of media coverage, went to local Chicago news and found the following:



So, this guy had a history of theft, and drug violations. And according to video, he wouldn't stop struggling.

Changes the view for me some. He seems to think what he can steal is ok, at least his criminal history seems to paint that story.

And the fact that the video supports what the manager obviously told police, I'd say that honest people are reaching a point where they will defend what's right, even if their actions go awry.

As we all teach our kids, actions have consequences, they always do.

I'm sure that manager will regret what happened the rest of his life and struggle with what happened.

I'm curious though, how often this store has been robbed or people have stolen from it. Everyone reaches a saturation point, perhaps the mgr reached his that day.

surprise surprise the media left out information. i have witnessed a newscaster who made a cop mad, get a story on a housefire that it was accidental....when a different newscaster got the truth of it was a molitof cocktail thrown thru a window of an occupied house (2 adults, 3 kids) by a disgrunted ex boyfriend....hmmm how the truth differents.

i am sure the manager did not purposely choke this guy to death....you dont have to have your hands around someone's neck for them to die of no air....if they were sitting on him or pushing on him or holding him in a manner that pushed on his chest too much, this is the same as choking (you are choking for air)

please dont believe everything you hear or read in the news....if they had video surveilance camers to show what happened, then obviously the police (oh yeah and state's attorney as they have to be called on a death and the decision not to arrest in these things) didnt have enough evidence to say the manager was commiting murder or involentary manslaughter

[ladyspl]

Now, doesn't that just bite ya in the butt.
I was sad because I felt he was "desperate", but know it looks like he was a repeat offender. I still don't think stealing constitutes death, but now I no longer even have pity for him.
PP is probably right, the manager has probably been a victim so many times that it was the straw that broke the camels back.
Sad, just sad.

[CW&M Mom]

I read the Huffington post coverage and it was missing a lot of information which is too typical of media coverage, went to local Chicago news and found the following:



So, this guy had a history of theft, and drug violations. And according to video, he wouldn't stop struggling.

Changes the view for me some. He seems to think what he can steal is ok, at least his criminal history seems to paint that story.

And the fact that the video supports what the manager obviously told police, I'd say that honest people are reaching a point where they will defend what's right, even if their actions go awry.

As we all teach our kids, actions have consequences, they always do.

I'm sure that manager will regret what happened the rest of his life and struggle with what happened.

I'm curious though, how often this store has been robbed or people have stolen from it. Everyone reaches a saturation point, perhaps the mgr reached his that day.

I shouldn't have to teach my kids that stealing the candy bar means it's okay to be choked to death.

The manager and CVS are going to face a wrongful death lawsuit over this. He legally is going to be held responsible if they win....you cannot defend what is "right" by making a bigger wrong that cannot be justified.

Sorry but there is no justification in this situation to result in a murder (which is what it is...his death is ruled a homicide...that means he was murdered).

[CSchunk]

My bet is he loses his job... in most cases only LP can go after shoplifters, if he doesn't follow the rules he is a liability.

[missmitz]

WOW! I thought death row was crowded her in Tx as it is,

sorry, must be evil here......... it wouldn't be so crowded if they would just get it over with!

[$Saving!]

I shouldn't have to teach my kids that stealing the candy bar means it's okay to be choked to death.

The manager and CVS are going to face a wrongful death lawsuit over this. He legally is going to be held responsible if they win....you cannot defend what is "right" by making a bigger wrong that cannot be justified.

Sorry but there is no justification in this situation to result in a murder (which is what it is...his death is ruled a homicide...that means he was murdered).

Do you believe he intended to kill the man? With all those others there to help restrain this man who punched him (shown in video according to reports)?

I don't think he did from what I read on local news coverage.

Certainly his family might file wrongful death and that is their right to do so.

But I'm not so quick to assume he murdered the man with intent.

[missmitz]

I shouldn't have to teach my kids that stealing the candy bar means it's okay to be choked to death.

The manager and CVS are going to face a wrongful death lawsuit over this. He legally is going to be held responsible if they win....you cannot defend what is "right" by making a bigger wrong that cannot be justified.

Sorry but there is no justification in this situation to result in a murder (which is what it is...his death is ruled a homicide...that means he was murdered).

Oh, I'm sure they will file suit........ the American way.....

And as for teaching your child they will be choked for stealing a candy bar.... I don't teach my daughter degrees of wrong or sin........ wrong is wrong......

[TheWoman]

I would really need to know a lot more about the details to reach a conclusion. I believe that a store owner/manager has every right to subdue someone who is shoplifting and hold them until the police arrive. It might not be smart but they should have that right.

Sometimes in the struggle something could happen that would result in a death. The question here is did the manager do something that a reasonable person in that situation would have thought would have killed the man? If not I don't call it murder but a tragic accident caused by the actions of the shoplifter.

I am getting tired of criminals getting away with whatever they want because everyone else is afraid, not only of the criminals but of the legal consequences of defending self or property. The manager did not instigate the situation in any way, he was a victim of a crime. That fact alone should mean that he gets the benefit of the doubt when there is one. Of course, there should be limits. If the manager KNEW he was choking the shoplifter and did it anyway he should be charged. If he did anything that a reasonable person would say "Stop that, you might kill/maim him" then he should be charged. If it was an accident or self defense, perhaps a reasonable fear that if he let go the shoplifter would kill him, he should not be charged.

The benefit of the doubt should always go to the side that was doing nothing wrong until the criminal came and started something. It is really easy to say "in that situation the guy should have done x", but if you were thrust into a situation like that would you always think rationally, or would you overreact?

[TheWoman]

Sorry but there is no justification in this situation to result in a murder (which is what it is...his death is ruled a homicide...that means he was murdered).

When the death is ruled a homicide, it simply means that another man killed him and he didn't die of a heart attack or something like that. The coroner is not in the business of determining if that homicide is justified, accidental, or premeditated. That is the job of the police/prosecutor/courts.

If a man broke into my home with a knife in one hand an a gun in the other screaming that he was going to kill my children and I fatally shoot him the coroner will rule it a homicide. That doesn't make it murder.

[beth119]

except the cop...is a cop and can use deadly force...the CVS employee is just like you and me and can't kill a guy over toothpaste...and if the cop killed a dude over toothpaste he may very well lose his job at least.

I shouldn't have to teach my kids that stealing the candy bar means it's okay to be choked to death.

The manager and CVS are going to face a wrongful death lawsuit over this. He legally is going to be held responsible if they win....you cannot defend what is "right" by making a bigger wrong that cannot be justified.

Sorry but there is no justification in this situation to result in a murder (which is what it is...his death is ruled a homicide...that means he was murdered).

This is how I felt.... I've seen plenty of cases where people have taken the law into their own hands... and yet, this time... It bothers me...A LOT.

sorry, must be evil here......... it wouldn't be so crowded if they would just get it over with!

Um, states really want to be sure that they're not executing innocent people. They have done that many times. And I don't care what anyone says... Execute one innocent person in haste, the whole system is lost.

Oh, I'm sure they will file suit........ the American way.....

And as for teaching your child they will be choked for stealing a candy bar.... I don't teach my daughter degrees of wrong or sin........ wrong is wrong......

Yikes! Do you tell her that if she tells a small fib (all kids do at some point) that she will be choked to death?