Do you eat food that other people prepare?

[abond0017]

Thought I'd post here since it is directly related to me eating after handling a bunch of stuff strangers touched. DH ran a 10 miler on Sunday, and I hit up the tents before he got back to the finish line to get some free swag. Didn't have my hand sanitizer cause I didn't bring my purse. They had some in the port o potties, but there were long lines. So when I decided to get food, they weren't clean cause I had touched swag from about 20+ different tents. Well, today I am paying for my impatience...I'm officially sick. Should have waited in the stinky potty line for some sanitized poo germ goo. Haven't been sick in over a year.

[CW&M Mom]

I don't think there's any question that the sanitizers are effective at killing germs. At least, if you use the ones that have at least 60% alcohol. No one can argue that point.

The real question though, has to do with the effects of sanitizing your environment and attempting to eliminate exposure (or greatly decrease) to dirt.

You can't satisfy answers to all these concerns by pointing to mainstream research. Some of it is just plain intuition - a feeling that something just isn't right with our modern way of thinking.

What happened for the many thousands of years before sanitizer - Yes, I know! People died! Plagues spread rapidly, and it was awful for many years before we learned the connection between germs and sickness. Then so many advances were made. Hand washing was the single most important thing ever. Sterile environments for surgical procedures, cleanliness and sanitization in hospitals. All that was wonderful. Believe me, I appreciate the knowledge we have and the
living conditions we can enjoy because of it.

But when do we go too far? At what point do our fears of germs cause us to become unreasonable and begin to harm? As we start seeing more allergies, more resistant bacteria, more disorders of the immune system, we have to ask ourselves why that's happening.

Antibiotics are wonderful and our best weapon against deadly germs, but people have taken them willy-nilly and abused them to the point where there's a real danger that at some point they won't be effective anymore. That's already happening.
That's why I get concerned over the use of sanitizers and anti-microbial products everywhere I turn.
I'm all for hand washing, and occasional sanitizer use when hand washing isn't practical, but I don't let fear rule my life. I believe in taking reasonable precautions.

I'm a research skeptic. Ever since I learned how much control the edible oil industry (think Crisco...) had over the research into the harms of trans-fats, and how they managed to keep researchers who knew differently black-listed, I've lost faith in the main-stream science. I always knew there had to be something wrong in being told the natural fats were dangerous (palm oil, coconut oil, butter, lard) and to use the artificially altered stuff instead. So when the truth came out, I wasn't surprised.
That's just one example. So many other things have been touted as the right way to live, that turn out to be wrong (low-fat diets, drinking 8 glasses of water per day etc.).

My motto: moderation in everything. This includes not going to extremes to sanitize everything I come in contact with, but at the same time not living in filthy squallor.

What they have figured out....through a lot of research is that those super bugs in the hospital are spread most often not by doctors and nurses hands...but there:

ties, stethescopes, long sleeves, sweaters sleeves, lab coats ect...

Using hand sanitizer (they use a combo of 62% or more alcohol and one or more other ingredient which will kill cdiff along with everything else) has stopped them from spreading it on there hands) but they are still spreading it on everything they are wearing.

What they found is if they had everyone wear short sleeves, no lab coats, no ties, and they all had to disinfect their stethoscopes in between patients..the cases of superbugs went down.

**now we just need to get them to stop wearing all that stuff in the hospitals**

The superbugs don't care if your house is filthy or not..they are growing in hospitals...looking for patients with crappy immune systems...or weakened immune systems...or horrible burns, or an open sore that they can jump in.

**technically psuedamonas is in probably everyone's home..cause it's in the water supply..but it's always been there** most superbugs just like to grow in hospitals.

Purell, hand washing ect has not caused them. Any TV show, Book or internet article that is claiming that is WRONG. What has made them super bugs...one is many of them just have a knack for being able to evade any kind of IV antibiotic that we have (like psuedamonas). You might be able to treat it for a while..but the bug in that person's body learns quickly how to grow inspite of it. In that person's body...as the doctors continue to use Iv ABX on them, they eventually run out of all kinds of IV ABX...because that super bug has mutated itself enough that it has become resistant to every kind of IV abx known.

IN a way because we have learned how to keep people with horrible diseases alive longer...we have in a way created super bugs....that have become even more resistant than they already were. See before...when they got XYZ gram rod negative bug...it killed them quickly because we had little to nothing to treat it. Now we have a few things we can try and treat it with.. you and I would be fine, we have good immune systems..we would treat it and move on. Someone with CF....they won't be rid of that bug...they will become carriers...so it will come back...they will keep using that iv ABX until it no longer works, then they will move to the next one, till they run out of options., and it eventually kills them.

CF patients used to die in early childhood. As we got better with advances in IV abx and inhaled abx we got to teens and beyond...now we are pushing 30's and more with lung transplants. IN the process many other diseases life expectancy improved as well because of the research with CF. You watch a friend or relative with CF though, or similar disease you watch as super bug after super bug assault there body..and you realize exactly how these bugs work, how they mutate, how they learn quickly to not respond to the IV ABX and it has ZERO to do with germx or purell. You have to pray that everyone walking into that room doesn't spread that bug to another person.

P.S. for those that aren't aware...all staff walking into that room and family members are supposed to use reverse precautions, so everyone has to gown up, and then those gowns are either, put in the dirty laundry when they walk out the door, or left hanging to be put back on when they come back in. when my son had psuedamonas and strep pneumo they had disposable gowns that everyone used..so all doctors/nurses/orderly's had to gown up to walk in.

That way....we don't get him sick with something else, and hopefully..HOPEFULLY no one else gets what he has. It also meant he was confined to his room.


intuition is not causation.

[thickbluebug]

What they have figured out....through a lot of research is that those super bugs in the hospital are spread most often not by doctors and nurses hands...but their:

ties, stethescopes, long sleeves, sweaters sleeves, lab coats ect...

,,,,,,

The hospital quit sterilizing their employee uniforms years ago.

Most take them home and wash them with out a service now.

So now the home laundry is infected too.

Plus no telling what the workers in the Operating room have.

One of my friends worked in the o.r. while she had mrsa.
They knew it and made her work anyway.
She asked for a temp assignment and they said no.

[CW&M Mom]

The hospital quit sterilizing their employee uniforms years ago.

Most take them home and wash them with out a service now.

So now the home laundry is infected too.

Plus no telling what the workers in the Operating room have.

One of my friends worked in the o.r. while she had mrsa.
They knew it and made her work anyway.
She asked for a temp assignment and they said no.

I bet she could report them.

I wonder how many hospitals actually have stopped using the laundry services for scrubs and such. I have no idea... Found an article/blog though AORN weighs in on laundering surgical scrubs in-house | OSHA Healthcare Advisor

More research has found...that replacing all the door nobs and light switches to I think nickle? I could be wrong on which metal it is, stops mrsa from growing on them. the regular ones...mrsa would stay alive on them, until disinfected.

[abond0017]

One of my friends worked in the o.r. while she had mrsa.
They knew it and made her work anyway.
She asked for a temp assignment and they said no.

That is scary!

[clippyclippy]

What they have figured out....through a lot of research is that those super bugs in the hospital are spread most often not by doctors and nurses hands...but there:

ties, stethescopes, long sleeves, sweaters sleeves, lab coats ect...

Using hand sanitizer (they use a combo of 62% or more alcohol and one or more other ingredient which will kill cdiff along with everything else) has stopped them from spreading it on there hands) but they are still spreading it on everything they are wearing.

What they found is if they had everyone wear short sleeves, no lab coats, no ties, and they all had to disinfect their stethoscopes in between patients..the cases of superbugs went down.

**now we just need to get them to stop wearing all that stuff in the hospitals**

The superbugs don't care if your house is filthy or not..they are growing in hospitals...looking for patients with crappy immune systems...or weakened immune systems...or horrible burns, or an open sore that they can jump in.

**technically psuedamonas is in probably everyone's home..cause it's in the water supply..but it's always been there** most superbugs just like to grow in hospitals.

Purell, hand washing ect has not caused them. Any TV show, Book or internet article that is claiming that is WRONG. What has made them super bugs...one is many of them just have a knack for being able to evade any kind of IV antibiotic that we have (like psuedamonas). You might be able to treat it for a while..but the bug in that person's body learns quickly how to grow inspite of it. In that person's body...as the doctors continue to use Iv ABX on them, they eventually run out of all kinds of IV ABX...because that super bug has mutated itself enough that it has become resistant to every kind of IV abx known.

IN a way because we have learned how to keep people with horrible diseases alive longer...we have in a way created super bugs....that have become even more resistant than they already were. See before...when they got XYZ gram rod negative bug...it killed them quickly because we had little to nothing to treat it. Now we have a few things we can try and treat it with.. you and I would be fine, we have good immune systems..we would treat it and move on. Someone with CF....they won't be rid of that bug...they will become carriers...so it will come back...they will keep using that iv ABX until it no longer works, then they will move to the next one, till they run out of options., and it eventually kills them.

CF patients used to die in early childhood. As we got better with advances in IV abx and inhaled abx we got to teens and beyond...now we are pushing 30's and more with lung transplants. IN the process many other diseases life expectancy improved as well because of the research with CF. You watch a friend or relative with CF though, or similar disease you watch as super bug after super bug assault there body..and you realize exactly how these bugs work, how they mutate, how they learn quickly to not respond to the IV ABX and it has ZERO to do with germx or purell. You have to pray that everyone walking into that room doesn't spread that bug to another person.

P.S. for those that aren't aware...all staff walking into that room and family members are supposed to use reverse precautions, so everyone has to gown up, and then those gowns are either, put in the dirty laundry when they walk out the door, or left hanging to be put back on when they come back in. when my son had psuedamonas and strep pneumo they had disposable gowns that everyone used..so all doctors/nurses/orderly's had to gown up to walk in.

That way....we don't get him sick with something else, and hopefully..HOPEFULLY no one else gets what he has. It also meant he was confined to his room.


intuition is not causation.

I agree with everything you say here. Before I had kids I was an NICU nurse for 10 years. Believe me, I took every precaution: scrubbing down (that's a 10 minute process) each time I entered the NICU, no jewelery, no lab coats (yes, we had to wear short sleeves, hair back, no nail polish... etc... ) I'm a huge advocate for these practices and I was a protective bear when it came to anyone (doctors, other personnel, family members) coming close to my babies without cleansing/clothing properly

The hospital environment is a totally different issue than our everyday lives though.
Although superbugs can contaminate our food, I don't think they've been found to cause GI sickness, since they are cooked off. And take normal precautions when you have any cuts on your hands to prevent that type of infection.

The most important thing one can do, aside from hand washing, is to have a healthy immune system. Some people are compromised and need the extra protection, but the vast majority of people could make some lifestyle changes that would do some good - improve the diet, get more sleep, reduce stress, etc. There are supplements that might help boost the immune system.
And do your kids a favor - get them off to a good start in life by healthy (reasonable) exposure to life.

And no, there's no causation in my intuition - My intuition is just a hunchy, common sensey sort of thing. I don't think I ever said Purell causes anything, but just pointed out the potential risk of over-doing a good thing.