Online school?

[CW&M Mom]

Last year at the points when she had the injuries she could not dance. The dance studio she goes to takes injuries VERY seriously. Unlike when I was a dancer, they are not allowed to push through the pain and just suck it up. So she did go and observe. But she missed out on a goodly portion of dance last year and sadly could not be in the recital.

What they are doing in gym is not what they are doing in dance class. One of her injuries, plantar fasciitis (sp?) is often caused by running which is what they were doing in gym. They have to do a LOT of running. I do not personally think running like that is good for the body. And it is controversial for dancers because it uses different muscles than what they do in dance.

The gym teacher also gave her a failing grade for square dancing because she had a Drs. appointment that day and wasn't able to take the test. She never gave her a chance to retake the test which they are supposed to do. There is no way this kid would fail that. She takes all kind of dance and in the past has taken ballroom. So I find it super hard to believe that she would fail at square dancing which I have done myself and which is pretty easy to do.

At the moment she is reading me the reviews from the school she wants to go to. That isn't helping her case any. It is just starting to get me more angry. But there is more to it than just me. She has a dad. She hasn't even talked to him about this at all. I think she is afraid to. She says she won't. There are some decisions I can/will make on my own. But I believe in a case like this, it is not up to me to make. Unless of course I say "no".

I have written to her teachers today in the classes where she is not doing well. One got back to me and said she would talk to her tomorrow. We'll see what happens.

I have plantar fasciatias and when it flares I cannot imagine being forced to run. It's horrible. It's like having an abscess tooth but in your foot. The best thing you can do is stay off of it.

[JulieDB]

I have plantar fasciatias and when it flares I cannot imagine being forced to run. It's horrible. It's like having an abscess tooth but in your foot. The best thing you can do is stay off of it.

I can only imagine. And could you believe that the teacher said she wasn't trying hard enough? Gah!

[clippyclippy]

She knows she has to do things she doesn't like. She just seems to have a wrong impression of things. Like home schooling. She thought if she did that I would only have to teach her what I knew and nothing more. And in her opinion I don't know much of anything! However... I had other moms who do homeschool try to talk to her about what really happens. She just didn't believe them.

She is just very stubborn and gets certain opinions and nobody can sway her. Like the two years in a row she asked for Toys R Us gift certificates for her birthday. In her mind they were a great place to go with lots of stuff she would like. In reality she had outgrown pretty much all of what they sell there and she wanted nothing. So she got angry at having the gift certificate and wound up using it to buy toys to donate to giving trees for Christmas.

She did the same thing this past birthday with Joanne's and Michaels. In her mind they are great places to shop. Then she has money to spend there, goes there and can't find a thing she wants. Actually she did find some things at one of the stores. Can't remember which one now. But only managed to spend $3.00 at the other.

So I think she has the wrong impression of this online school. She believes she will be working one on one with a teacher. That they will assign a teacher only to her. And the teacher will help her do her work. And that she will not ever have to do any work on her own. Because the teacher will always be there. I don't think it's that way at all.

My middle dd who I described in my pp was not unlike what you describe. She was very ornery at times. It started when she was about 3 and continued through her early teens. She was always beautifully sweet away from home, and other people thought she was absolutely adorable. But at home she took it out on the family, especially me. She was demanding, hard-headed, and extremely resistant to discipline. She would physically resist, and have temper tantrums when she didn't get her way. On the other hand, she'd be fun, affectionate and very entertaining when she wasn't in one of those moods.
I think that was also one of the reasons my son wanted to go to school. He wanted to get away because it was miserable being at home with her.

Those were exasperating years. I always said God used it to humble me because I felt like such a failure with her.

I don't know what changed, but she's 16 now, and a different person. She's mellowed out, and much more level headed. Now I really enjoy her. Since she's the only one at home with me, we've become much closer and I would say we have a very good relationship.
Things aren't perfect. She is still hard-headed. But I can see that slowly becoming a positive character trait, as she is using it more appropriately.

So there is hope, but there are things you need to do now to turn things around. Firmly and patiently be the parent. Don't let her learn that bad behavior has any positive reward. I remember a time or two apologizing to my daughter for not being the parent she needed, and allowing her to believe that she could behave badly and get what she wanted. I made lots of mistakes. But still, something clicked in her and she's made big adjustment in her attitude towards me, her school work and life in general.

Do you pray? Because in the end, that's what I believe made the biggest difference. I can't look at anything I did to make it better. I did all I could, but that wouldn't have been enough. I think God worked on both of us.

All this I share to let you know I can relate to your frustrations. When you describe your daughter, I know exactly what you are talking about. It's not easy being where you are - and you might be at your wit's end in some areas. Don't give up!

She's only 13 and you have time to get things going into a more positive direction. Take each day one at a time. Work on encouraging her positive behavior and don't allow her to get what she wants by forcefully exerting herself over your authority. Don't be discouraged if it's hard - be persistent.

Even if your mother isn't the one to go to for formal counseling, she might be a good resource in offering some practical suggestions in what you can do, and wisdom of age and experience to help in this situation. My mother was a teacher, and I remember many a conversation with her, where I would vent a little - she'd encourage me and I so much appreciated her life experience as a guide to me.
Hopefully your husband can also get on board, and the two of you can work together.
She's worth it!

[clippyclippy]

Last year at the points when she had the injuries she could not dance. The dance studio she goes to takes injuries VERY seriously. Unlike when I was a dancer, they are not allowed to push through the pain and just suck it up. So she did go and observe. But she missed out on a goodly portion of dance last year and sadly could not be in the recital.

What they are doing in gym is not what they are doing in dance class. One of her injuries, plantar fasciitis (sp?) is often caused by running which is what they were doing in gym. They have to do a LOT of running. I do not personally think running like that is good for the body. And it is controversial for dancers because it uses different muscles than what they do in dance.

The gym teacher also gave her a failing grade for square dancing because she had a Drs. appointment that day and wasn't able to take the test. She never gave her a chance to retake the test which they are supposed to do. There is no way this kid would fail that. She takes all kind of dance and in the past has taken ballroom. So I find it super hard to believe that she would fail at square dancing which I have done myself and which is pretty easy to do.

At the moment she is reading me the reviews from the school she wants to go to. That isn't helping her case any. It is just starting to get me more angry. But there is more to it than just me. She has a dad. She hasn't even talked to him about this at all. I think she is afraid to. She says she won't. There are some decisions I can/will make on my own. But I believe in a case like this, it is not up to me to make. Unless of course I say "no".

I have written to her teachers today in the classes where she is not doing well. One got back to me and said she would talk to her tomorrow. We'll see what happens.

From all you've said, I'd want to get her out of that school too!
Are there any other public school options? In our area we have charter schools and magnet schools, but I'm guessing you don't have that choice, since you haven't mentioned it.

So what happens next year? Will she go to a different school? Maybe if she finishes out this year, she can look forward to a fresh start in high school?

If school simply doesn't work out, this year or next, and you do decide to allow the virtual school, you would need to have very firm expectations of her. Tell her that you will allow her to do the online school, but if she doesn't meet them, she goes back to school, no negotiating.

The online school does sound less demanding on the parent than traditional home school - your role would be to make sure she does it. You don't have to worry about planning, grading or any of that stuff. You'd basically be the supervising physical presence.

Once this is not an issue between the two of you (her unhappiness with school) and she is getting what she chose, she should have a vested interest in making it successful. In other words, the ball is in her court.

But you would want to encourage her to be successful by investing something into it yourself - do those field trips, find a home school group that meets regularly so that she has a social outlet. Make learning fun!

Getting to know the other moms might be encouraging to you as well. You might find others with similar challenges. That has helped me immensely, to know that I wasn't alone. It's easy to think other people have perfect little families, but once you get to know them, you find out how wrong you are.

You may not have much energy or physical ability to do a lot, but as it's been, so much of your energy has been drained in negative interaction with her. If you can do some things to make that more positive, you might find you can actually do more than you thought you could.

[JulieDB]

My middle dd who I described in my pp was not unlike what you describe. She was very ornery at times. It started when she was about 3 and continued through her early teens. She was always beautifully sweet away from home, and other people thought she was absolutely adorable. But at home she took it out on the family, especially me. She was demanding, hard-headed, and extremely resistant to discipline. She would physically resist, and have temper tantrums when she didn't get her way. On the other hand, she'd be fun, affectionate and very entertaining when she wasn't in one of those moods.
I think that was also one of the reasons my son wanted to go to school. He wanted to get away because it was miserable being at home with her.

Those were exasperating years. I always said God used it to humble me because I felt like such a failure with her.

I don't know what changed, but she's 16 now, and a different person. She's mellowed out, and much more level headed. Now I really enjoy her. Since she's the only one at home with me, we've become much closer and I would say we have a very good relationship.
Things aren't perfect. She is still hard-headed. But I can see that slowly becoming a positive character trait, as she is using it more appropriately.

So there is hope, but there are things you need to do now to turn things around. Firmly and patiently be the parent. Don't let her learn that bad behavior has any positive reward. I remember a time or two apologizing to my daughter for not being the parent she needed, and allowing her to believe that she could behave badly and get what she wanted. I made lots of mistakes. But still, something clicked in her and she's made big adjustment in her attitude towards me, her school work and life in general.

Do you pray? Because in the end, that's what I believe made the biggest difference. I can't look at anything I did to make it better. I did all I could, but that wouldn't have been enough. I think God worked on both of us.

All this I share to let you know I can relate to your frustrations. When you describe your daughter, I know exactly what you are talking about. It's not easy being where you are - and you might be at your wit's end in some areas. Don't give up!

She's only 13 and you have time to get things going into a more positive direction. Take each day one at a time. Work on encouraging her positive behavior and don't allow her to get what she wants by forcefully exerting herself over your authority. Don't be discouraged if it's hard - be persistent.

Even if your mother isn't the one to go to for formal counseling, she might be a good resource in offering some practical suggestions in what you can do, and wisdom of age and experience to help in this situation. My mother was a teacher, and I remember many a conversation with her, where I would vent a little - she'd encourage me and I so much appreciated her life experience as a guide to me.
Hopefully your husband can also get on board, and the two of you can work together.
She's worth it!

I don't pray. As for my husband I don't think he will ever get on board with me. He just doesn't get it and I don't think ever will. It was because of him that I went to counseling.

My daughter is a lot better than she was when young. Although she didn't have a lot of temper tantrums when she did have them there was literally no way to discipline her. If you gave her a swat she would give you one right back. Her dad taught her to do this. She would scream and yell, pee or poop on the floor and even throw up. She thought she was punishing me because I had to clean it up. Well... Even at age 2 I forced her to clean up this sort of mess and she wasn't allowed to do anything else until she did. Of course she didn't clean it well and I would have to go back and do it but... At least it taught her that she wasn't going to get away with this for long. Thankfully she doesn't do this sort of stuff any more!

[JulieDB]

From all you've said, I'd want to get her out of that school too!
Are there any other public school options? In our area we have charter schools and magnet schools, but I'm guessing you don't have that choice, since you haven't mentioned it.

So what happens next year? Will she go to a different school? Maybe if she finishes out this year, she can look forward to a fresh start in high school?

If school simply doesn't work out, this year or next, and you do decide to allow the virtual school, you would need to have very firm expectations of her. Tell her that you will allow her to do the online school, but if she doesn't meet them, she goes back to school, no negotiating.

The online school does sound less demanding on the parent than traditional home school - your role would be to make sure she does it. You don't have to worry about planning, grading or any of that stuff. You'd basically be the supervising physical presence.

Once this is not an issue between the two of you (her unhappiness with school) and she is getting what she chose, she should have a vested interest in making it successful. In other words, the ball is in her court.

But you would want to encourage her to be successful by investing something into it yourself - do those field trips, find a home school group that meets regularly so that she has a social outlet. Make learning fun!

Getting to know the other moms might be encouraging to you as well. You might find others with similar challenges. That has helped me immensely, to know that I wasn't alone. It's easy to think other people have perfect little families, but once you get to know them, you find out how wrong you are.

You may not have much energy or physical ability to do a lot, but as it's been, so much of your energy has been drained in negative interaction with her. If you can do some things to make that more positive, you might find you can actually do more than you thought you could.

There is one other Junior High in this city. Not sure how many others in this district. She could not just go there though. There would have to be a reason. And I am unwilling to drive her there and pick her up each day. So not an option. And I am in contact with kids from those schools. They are no better.

Everyone seems to have the same complaints with her school so it's not just her. She would still go there next year as well. I have told her that she needs to show me that she can be mature and do the things she is supposed to do. And if she can do this, I might consider the online school for next year or high school. But for now? I'm not seeing it.

[Gertie2u]

I will weigh in from the perspective of a parent that has raised a child like your child to adulthood. My older daughter had to be forced to do everything she did. She failed a class as an 8th grader. The school's solution was that she re-take the class during the summer, and the situation was that she basically did the same thing as online school. Watch a lecture, read an assignment, answer questions all on a computer. The little pot had failed by either just not doing assignments and taking a zero or very low grade, or by doing the assignment because I sat over her and made her, then just failing to turn it in and claiming the teacher never asked for it. I guess they just had a special secret club sign that allowed the other kids to turn it in on time but not her. Grrr. Anyways, she completed the entire class in less than one week and then it was over. She then proceeded she has admitted to me recently to just treat the classes she disliked as social time with the knowledge she could do them over the summer. After 9th that was two classes and after tenth it was four. The third time, the summer session had a new director who made her show up for class and do something like read and do reports on the books she read after she finished her work for the four classes until the end of summer session, instead of letting her just come until she finished. She missed all the family summer trips and a lot of summer fun because she had to go to class. Shockingly, she didn't need any summer school the next year. All this and my daughter definitely has no learning problems, in fact, she tested genius IQ as a tot. She could fail a class and take the standard test and make an exemplary, so it certainly was no lack of ability to complete the course work.

She pulled all the same sorts of stuff your daughter has and always had some excuse. Lots of times, you could kinda think maybe she was softhearted because it was something like your daughter saying she believed she needed to stay home with you. She has told me flat out since adulthood it was completely a made-up thing. She just said whatever she thought would work with me to get her own way or to not have to do things she found distasteful.

It isn't that she's a bad kid, she is just a smart kid. I bet you dollars to donuts, like my child, when push comes to shove she will do what she has to in order to get by. My daughter managed to weasel her way into the parental bedroom when she had a series of ear infections. We tried everything, but when we finally just said sorry. While Mom or Dad will sit in a comfy chair at the foot of your bed until you fall asleep, you are going to have to sleep alone in your room and then followed through, it took her three nights to learn to move on. As far as that phys ed teacher is concerned, if your daughter has a doctor's note they're ignoring, you need to be working your way up the food chain. Principal, district super, school board, state school board. If necessary, hire a lawyer to talk to them. Make sure she isn't going to dance as if she is too ill to do phys ed at school she is far too ill to go to any dance lessons.

I wouldn't put up with her talking in a bad way to you, either. She's just doing it because she can get away with it. There is not a thing wrong with your daughter, don't get me wrong. She's just your normal kid, gonna do whatever it is she can get away with. Wouldn't we all stay home, lounge in our pj's, and never do anything we didn't want to do if we could and still have everything we want? Since it sounds like dance is her primary focus, I'd take away a dance lesson every time she acts out. Don't let her bully you about how it will mean she misses out on some dance honors. If she wants the honors, she has to earn them, both at home and in class. I found the biggest part of getting kids to tow the line is finding what thing they don't want to miss out on, and demonstrating your willingness to take that away from them for misconduct. If missing a dance class at 13 causes her to miss out on a solo performance, well, she will have learned kids who don't do what is needed at home miss out on that. A very valuable lesson.

You seem to make a lot of excuses for her. She can't do chores because not home on weeknights. Hm, what about weekends? She should have a list and a completion time, and let her decide when to do them no matter what her schedule. Unless she leaves the house for 15 hours per day every day, she has time to do some chores. Maybe not a lot, but some. Pretty much same with the 4 minutes to class thing. If the majority of the kids are arriving on time, she just needs to pick up the pace.

I usually found it easiest to just be implacable. Any wiggle room, they'll shimmy their tushie right into it and proceed to carve out as much room as possible. First things first. Make a date with daughter and hubby to clean up her room as soon as possible. This weekend would be good, but if not possible, next weekend at the latest. As soon as it is clean, tell her children of her age need to stay by themselves. At most, offer to sit in recliner in her room reading a book until she falls asleep until she turns 14 years old.

Please understand, I'm not judging you. There are some things I didn't press with my daughter, often either thinking I was picking my battles, or else falling for some of her excuses because of my own issues. I strongly wish I'd pushed those issues firmly. My daughter has told me she plans to do so with her own child and has owned up that she was just getting away with all she could. If it helps any, my daughter has still turned out to be a pretty awesome young woman. She's a college student doing fairly well, she's married to a good husband, and she mostly does great with her life. She and I have talked about the fact there are a good few opportunities she knows she missed out on by being how she was in the past, and she's working to do better with her future. Your daughter may never like some things, but she can learn to deal with them when she has to, and she should do that.

I'd say no to the online school myself because once she gets that, it will just be something new. Can't complete the online lessons on time because <whatever> and online school is mean to her, boo hoo probably. Part of going to school is learning to play the game of life and just deal. She won't always get to choose to work with people she likes doing things she enjoys doing. Even if she's lucky enough to somehow get into a career that involves mostly doing things she enjoys, there are always going to be bits that have to be done she doesn't like. Might was well learn the truth about the world now and learn to deal with it.