Have you ever been offended by ..

[n2save]

Ok.. i don't know what i got myself into .. but let me explain first

Language arts teacher assigned to 6th graders ( two of mine in that class ) .. book from Shakespeare- 12.th night

Ok - so not familiar with it - went online and saw a lot of alarming signs-
i was not happy with everything i saw being introduced in that book- according to the google research it is dealing with " alcohol and sex " a-lot .
So i contact the L.A teacher, she tells me i'm overreacting- it is just a " funny play a comedy - that other kids loved.
I contact the V. President of the school and she says ok we'll see what we can do about it.
Their solution " - fine - if you don't like the book we will excuse your kids from the class room they can be in an office reading a different book while we continue with reading this one..

hmm.. no- i'm not ok with that.

1. you are " banning " my children for about 2-3 months- daily from the L.A class..
2. I did not say it is not appropriate for my children- but for any at this age level..

But- i decided to " back out " and purchase the book so i could read it " along " with the school.. so i could " be in touch " and see what it is about and if necessery explain some things to my children - which BTW up until now have never been exposed to any bad language /movies , R movies etc.. very well behaved and raised. ( exactly - by avoiding this type of things this teacher is trying to make them read every day )

So i went to Barnes & Nobles, bought the book, sat down started reading, and could not believe the content of the book- i finished it in 3 hours- but i was schocked by all the obscene language, suggesting sex scenese, introducing and promoting alcohol, cross dressing, gay relationships, cursing the marriege , calling the husbands " fools " for getting married, and women - .. with names i would not want to mention here..

one example was - here ..

two characters in the book talking and one man talks about his hair beeing always good looking the other one says to him
( in old english )

" Excellent, it hangs like flax on a distaff. And i Hope to see a housewife take thee between her legs and spin it off "

in modern english translation ( also from the book /side by side translation )

It looks great. It hangs like an old worn-out mop. Some woman should give you syphillis so you go bald "

So which verion do you want your 11-12 year old to read ? None.
" Mom, what is syphillis ? " - uhm.. no i don't think this is a conversation we need to have when you are just 11 years old- what benefit do they have from this ?

And not to meniton the countless examples of words like
" ass" idiot, jerk, Shut up yuo jerk, go hang yourself, " i follow you to the gates of hell you little devil " ..

Am i overreacting ? The whole book is just not age appropriate- has no benefit for this age at all.

So today i'm informed by the principal that he is arranging a meeting between him, the teacher, v. president- , and the Tuscon - english department over phone conference - and myself.

Ok - didn't think it would go that far, but i still think that i have the reason to believe this book should not be introduced to the children in mid. school.

I mean- the fairy tales from Grimm brothers have been banned from schools for far less " suggesting " things - and far less innocent stuff.

so .. what do you think.. and any advice ?

[beth119]

First, I think that banning any book short of the kama sutra is ridiculous.

Second... Honestly... I think you're over reacting. A bit.

I know the book, and its not that bad. Really. Its totally age appropriate. Maybe your kids have just been more "sheltered" than most?

If they are willing to assign an alternative, then take it. Or maybe... its time to let the kids broaden their horizons a bit...

Also, just tell them its a STORY. Not to be taken to seriously.

(btw, if they're in sixth grade... they KNOW A LOT MORE than you think they do.)

[n2save]

To my argument- i would like to add -
why teach the children a type of language / vocabulary - which if they would happen to use it in the school - would be in trouble for.

Example.. don 't you guys think , that if one of the students told the other one " shut up you jerk " .. come here you idiot.. you a... etc ' wouldn't they be in troulbe for that type of language ? Yes of course they would..
Why teach them something you dont' want them to use ?

My children are not familiar with this type of language .. i mean for them a bad word is " dumb / stupid " when they hear it or happen to use it among them selves ( siblings ) .. they feel like they did something very bad..

now this book is fool of obscene language.. and - it's suggestive, it's promoting drinking , immorality -, cheating, missleading others is " Fun" and lying is fun.. hurting others is " fun " - etc etc.. nothing beneficial in this book - for anyone, let allone for a 11-12 year old..

Yes- i have all these arguments- but i have never been in a meeting like this- and i'm just plain nervous- do i need to do some more research ? do i need to prepare more facts ? or do i just go in , as a concerned parent with arguments and facts i allready have on hand ?

[n2save]

Well- maybe i forgot to mention the fact that up until the 6th grade they have been in a private religious school - so no - i don't think they know " more than i think " -

i guess- what's " normal " for someone is way to obscene and inapropriate to others..
Yes it is " just " a story- but don't the stories serve a purpose ? Isn't that what any book is about ? To teach us something ? Especially books that are picked in school as reading materials - shouldn't they serve a purpose of " teaching " and sending a massage ? a moral of the story ?

You are responsible for your children, - and that is also in the category " what they see/ hear/ read/ watch .. because once they are in trouble- than it's too late .. common the whole society is so sex obsessed than the people who are trying to turn their head away from it- occur to be - behind .. not normal.. /over sheltered ? .. What happend to modesty ? character ? moral ? any higher values than getting some booze and getting laid ( words quoted from the book ? "

[shelleyf]

I agree with Beth that most kids do know much more than this book suggests. My kids have known about life's choices since they were very little. We told them about sex, smoking, drugs, rape,drinking, incest and everything in between openly and honestly. Believe me, kids talk about all of the above when they are as young as 4 or 5. I would rather them learn from us then on the streets from other kids. They have known about diseases since they were about 5 and when they got a little older they saw pictures on the internet of the diseases. yes it is gross, but they said that is instilled in their brain and don't want to get anything. I was sheltered and had to learn for myself and there is no way I am going to do that to my children. My Mom regrets it.


I went to a private school when I was in the 10th grade. That is where a lot of kids learn things is in the private Christian school. I am one but do believe in letting them be informed because if you don't do it, believe me someone else will. I have seen it happen too many times over the years. Alot of sheltered kids go wild when they turn 18, not all but I have seen a bunch.

[beth119]

Well- maybe i forgot to mention the fact that up until the 6th grade they have been in a private religious school - so no - i don't think they know " more than i think " -

i guess- what's " normal " for someone is way to obscene and inapropriate to others..

I learned more about sex in private Catholic school than I EVER did in public

Just curious... what do you want them to read? I take it "To Kill a Mockingbird, The Diary of Anne Frank" almost all shakespeare... is no go...

And Shakespeare is only "obscene" if you choose to look at it that way. Sure, its no Berenstein Bears.... but its not the Kama Sutra.

[faeryedark]

First, I think that banning any book short of the kama sutra is ridiculous.

Second... Honestly... I think you're over reacting. A bit.

I know the book, and its not that bad. Really. Its totally age appropriate. Maybe your kids have just been more "sheltered" than most?

If they are willing to assign an alternative, then take it. Or maybe... its time to let the kids broaden their horizons a bit...

Also, just tell them its a STORY. Not to be taken to seriously.

(btw, if they're in sixth grade... they KNOW A LOT MORE than you think they do.)

I have to agree. They did give the option to opt out. Also, by 6th grade they should know what V.D. (syphilis) is and how not to get it.
Our schools are teaching about that stuff (age appropriate in th 4th and 5th grades)
As much as I like my kids to be keep their innocense, i have to realize that other kids are not so much ...and if "I" don't take the initiative and teach my kids ...they'll learn somewhere else.
Perhaps, this would be a good jumping of point to have discussions, ask them how they feel about what they're reading and learning.
I had an interesting discussion over the use of the "N" word in a book with my son.
I'm just against banning books, but all for a parent's perogative to ask for an alternatuive if they don't feel comfortable with what's being taught.
The same would go with a Biology class where dissection is involved.

[3timesoccermom]

I don't think you're over-reacting at all but I think you'll find we're in the minority. I hate that so many people find that sort of material "no big deal" for students that young. I didn't like it when my kids read stuff like that in class in high school either but I wouldn't have minded if they'd read it at home though it wouldn't have been first on their priority list. You'd think with ALL the books in the world they could find something that wouldn't have offensive material in it such as described. I'm old-fashioned and make no apologies for it - they have the rest of their lives to read those books.

I'm not for banning books but I sure as heck feel there could be better choices made.

NOTE - I edited this for clarity and to better make my point.

[n2save]

Allright- I was " educated " about EVERYTHING by my mother. She was the one telling me everything without any witholding- she explained to me what is what.. and what happens from what , what to avoid , etc etc etc..

But the point here is SHE thought me that in the way she saw fitting - she chose the right words and language- explained everything without beeing vulgar .. using obsene language and describing me " all the deepest details of s... desires - ..

Explaining and teaching your child is one thing. But giving them this type of books to read- is another. Books that educate- even biology / or anatomy books- that do have explicit pictures- i'm still more for that- than for these "made up stories " ..

When i was in 6th grade - we were reading books about chernobyll, about world catastrophees, - biographies, diaries of famous people- i went to school in germany and - that time- Shakespeare was not introduced to children before high school or college- never in mid. school
There's plenty material to read - without going into " R rated material.

I don't want to get accross as " angry " or arguing / i'm just having a discussion and trying to see everyone's elses views

[n2save]

I don't think you're over-reacting at all but I think you'll find we're in the minority. I hate that so many people find that sort of material "no big deal" for students that young. I didn't like it when my kids read stuff like that in high school either. You'd think with ALL the books in the world they could find something appropriate that wouldn't have offensive material in it such as described. I'm old-fashioned and make no apologies for it - they have the rest of their lives to read those books.

I'm not for banning books but I sure as heck feel there could be better choices made.

Thank you - couldn't have it said better ! - Don't have to ban it - but at least wait till they are old enough to make their own choice..

Thank you- at least i don't feel so allone in this world any more- and not " crazy " - what is wrong with beeing old fashioned ? modest ? NOthing at all .. well at least it's " two " of us

And a detail in your comment- very important- " in high school " - your kids were in high school- and i'm talking about mid. school - 11-12 years old ?