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View Full Version : How come some many "good" traders go bad?



anothershopper2
09-17-2011, 05:42:53 PM
I'm not even sure where to put this, but I haven't traded heavily in the last few years due to kids, life and not being able to find good forms or multiple inserts like I used to. I have looked at the bad trader forum and I see a bunch of people who I recognize as "good" traders from over the years, at least more than I expected. What makes these traders with good standing just go "bad"? :dontknow1: Just curious.

shelleyf
09-17-2011, 06:05:08 PM
I don't know and have been wondering the same exact thing. I think it is very sad. :sad3:

3timesoccermom
09-17-2011, 07:23:02 PM
This is the main reason I don't trade. I would probably do something wrong and disappoint someone and I couldn't stand that.

mommy22boys
09-17-2011, 07:25:52 PM
My name is on the bad traders list. I have been trading for several years- on this site and on others. Once, a couple of years ago, I did several trades (thought they were complete) and then I didn't log back on for several months because life got hectic (had just left my ex husband, moved across the country, started college full time as well as a part time job, had 2 kids to take care of as well.) I got an email from an online friend one day asking me if I was aware that my name was on the bad traders list here. I wasn't! I rushed straight here. Apparently one of the trades had never arrived and for some reason I had it marked down that I already received & left feedback. I made better on the trade, which was 5 stamps, but am still on the bad traders list. I have made several trades since but not a lot, not like I used to before life got crazy. I think maybe sometimes things just honestly come up and maybe the trader isn't a "bad" trader. Yeah, I've been scammed by some people and it hurt and made me want to quit. But now I know first hand that it's possible for "good" traders to make an accident and then be stuck on the bad trader list forever. :(

434Teresa
09-17-2011, 10:10:10 PM
I dont know either..I did one last month and the person did not send all the q's that she said she would. I sent pm's and emails but she would not get back with me. So I moved on and reported her and few days later she had more bad feedback form others. I look every few days to see and she still has not been online on here again. This person had been on here awhile so I thought they were safe to trade with but I guess not.

I understand that things happen but I had a bad feeling about that trade from the start but she had some hard to find and get coupons that really needed..

CW&M Mom
09-17-2011, 10:24:34 PM
IMO it's not hard to stay off the list.

Keep up your end.

Be prepared that if the PO losses the envie...or aliens abduct it that you can either resend it, make up for it (if it was a train) or refund the money.

I had the PO hold onto envies that I hand deliver for 7 days...we could tell from the post mark...who knows..what happend. Silly thing was one was only going 2 hours from me. So it took over a week to get there. When I found out it had not gotten there I just resent the envie.

It's really just is not that hard.

mamato3_10
09-18-2011, 05:56:58 AM
Im scared i will get put on the list of bad traders postal pepole on my side are bad about delaying mail and losing it. I had to report my mail lady a couple of months ago cause she always was putting everyone's mail were ever and half of my mail never got here. I had a bunch of envies go missing they were all from the 8th and 9th of this month. Finaly after 5 days i started getting them 1 was ripped open even. I got my last envie yesteday that was mail from a user on here to me. But i figured i will try to fix anything that happens.

cody82414
09-18-2011, 06:18:14 AM
I just don't see that there are SO many 'good' gone 'bad',
but I suppose 'SO' is subjective.

I agre with mommy22boys
my guess is that
a.) life happens
or
b.) one gets coupons burnout
or
c.) there are just some out there wanting something for nothing

If you care to come back to HCW after a hiatus, you make the trade right and move forward.

If you don't care to come back,
then you don't care that you did someone wrong.

If you are out to get yours,
you got it
and you move on
without thinking twice.

I believe that HCW has the best traders
and most honest traders of any couponing/deal trading board.

But you know the saying
One bad apple...

CW&M Mom
09-18-2011, 11:03:16 AM
One thing I do do though...If I know my life is gonna get crazy (vacation, Christmas, moving ect..)

I stop trading....for a while.

I used to do trains all the time..but it got to overwhelming..so now I only do one occasionally. I just do more casual trades now.


obviously there are some that actually try to just scam people (do nothing but try to do bad trades)..we really try to sniff those out as fast as possible here. This is why we do the traders in training program...to try and weed out the full frontal scammers.

SariniLynn
09-18-2011, 11:37:02 AM
Im scared i will get put on the list of bad traders postal pepole on my side are bad about delaying mail and losing it. I had to report my mail lady a couple of months ago cause she always was putting everyone's mail were ever and half of my mail never got here. I had a bunch of envies go missing they were all from the 8th and 9th of this month. Finaly after 5 days i started getting them 1 was ripped open even. I got my last envie yesteday that was mail from a user on here to me. But i figured i will try to fix anything that happens.

Don't worry, it's not THAT easy to get on the bad traders list. Do you get emails when someone PMs you? Because I guarantee that before you are added to the list, you will get multiple PMs saying 'Hey!! Where are you?!' and giving you the chance to fix it up front. I've had people disappear on trains before, and there is a long delay before they go on the bad trader list, during which the mods send messages themselves to make sure the person has a chance to make it right.

You won't end up there accidentally. Or, perhaps I should say, you won't end up there without knowing it. Not if you have internet access.

Kulis
09-18-2011, 11:50:14 AM
Does a name remain on the Bad Trader list even after the "bad" trades have been reconciled?

ilove2$hop
09-18-2011, 12:16:39 PM
I have been noticing that I will get emails saying....where is my envie...did you send it? and this is 2 or 3 days after the trade. I get frustrated because it does take time for mail to get delivered especially if its across the country. I put d/c on large trades just so I know they receive it. I have had a few envies not show up when I know I sent them so I have to refund....I am leery of new itraders and I always wait till I see their end then I will send out.

Communication is key!! if I couldn't get my end out for some reason, a simple email to let them know what is going on is all you need, not to disappear off the face of the earth...I think 2 weeks for a trade to be completed is more than generous but if your that late on a trade, they may not want to trade with you again.

434Teresa
09-18-2011, 02:20:18 PM
A lot of times its not fare to hold your end up for if the the person needs those q's for a sale then they may not get them in time. I know that many traders do this to new traders but just because they are new dont mean that wont send thier part out. The person that I had a bad trade with had been on here longer then me. So bad trades come from more than new users.

Anytime we mail a envie we are taking a chance on it not getting there for some reason it happens....I got a envie of coupons back about 4 months after I mailed them, where has they been all that time? I dont know but they were somewhere. I have got them back with the enive cut in half with a note from the po saying that they were sorry and I have got some that I bought on ebay that was tore in half with a note saying the same thing.. Funny things happpen to mail sometimes that just all I can say but when the person that you were getting the envie from wont get back with you that makes things seem funny and to be more than the PO messing up.

Yes 3 days is a little fast to get coupons in the mail depending on where they are comming from. I do get them in 3 days sometimes sometimes in 5 but I have also had it to take as many as 7. I usually will give them 5 days before I start to worry any but after 7 they usually dont make it here.

The thing is you cant ride the trains if you have one bad feedback. So if you make the bad trade up I think it should be removed or at least changed to something to show you had a bad trade but made it up so you can ride the trains if you want to.

434Teresa
09-18-2011, 02:23:34 PM
Does a name remain on the Bad Trader list even after the "bad" trades have been reconciled?

Yes but they do add to it that the trade was made up

CW&M Mom
09-18-2011, 02:28:05 PM
I'm not a bad trade mod..but I don't think they allow a bad trade report to be filed after 3 days at all. I think I can safely say they would tell the person to wait.

The only exception to that I can think of would be if it was sent priority mail or express mail..which I doubt happens often here.

bugface711
09-18-2011, 04:11:09 PM
When you compare that we have a few thousand registered traders & tnt's to the names on the list that accumulated over YEARS we've really got a great group!!

If you are on the list, come back & make it up, it depends on the situation what happens. In most cases we edit the listing to say "made up" but keep the name up there because I think members deserve to know that there was an issue in the past, but in some cases, when a trader has a long history of great trades, comes back, makes it up and continues on with great trades for a while, we may take the name down.

Sometimes members come back and want to make up the trades months & years later. That is a great thing, but sometimes the other trader is no longer trading & unreachable so a fix is not possible. Those names stay up on the list. Theory being, you've had X time to make it up its great that you are willing, but other traders have the right to know the history.

I think there are levels of bad traders. The scammmers that hit many boards all at once trying to get a big coupon score. Some pick one board and just keep trying to come back. These are scam artists and they make me so angry the traders here rock & dont deserve it!! :( just make a trade like everyone else and send your end. Its because of these types that we suggest holding your end when trading with a new trader or someone with minimal feedback.

Then there are traders who do not send their end because they get overwhelmed. They didnt mean to scam people but just cant handle trading and instead of asking for help and working it out they blow it all off.

Then, we have the traders who go MIA for various reasons. We always understand life before coupons, all we ask is accept that regardless of why, someone is out their end and they should have it made up to them. When any of the above things happen, it needs to be put out there that there was a trade issue.

For those that have a one time issue, trading here is still allowed because yes life happens which is why you can have 1 bad trade & still be a member. That is also why the list says if the member is banned or still trading.

mommy22boys
09-18-2011, 04:19:49 PM
Does a name remain on the Bad Trader list even after the "bad" trades have been reconciled?

Mine did. It's still on there now from sometime in 2009 I believe. I have made trades since. Not many though cause it's embarrassing.

motherofmolly
09-18-2011, 09:16:43 PM
I have been noticing that I will get emails saying....where is my envie...did you send it? and this is 2 or 3 days after the trade. I get frustrated because it does take time for mail to get delivered especially if its across the country. I put d/c on large trades just so I know they receive it. I have had a few envies not show up when I know I sent them so I have to refund....I am leery of new itraders and I always wait till I see their end then I will send out.

Communication is key!! if I couldn't get my end out for some reason, a simple email to let them know what is going on is all you need, not to disappear off the face of the earth...I think 2 weeks for a trade to be completed is more than generous but if your that late on a trade, they may not want to trade with you again.

you can not expect a trade to arrive in 2 to 3 days. 7 days now is about standard.

and yes COMMUNICATION is important. having done bad trades for a year now i have seen one of the biggest issues is not communicating. the "oops i forgot to mail" happens and if you realize a couple days later, you should pm the person and say so that way they know or can back out. when another trader pm's you a week later and says "hey i never got this when did you mail"...answering their pm can help things along. ignoring them just makes them worry that you dont care.

motherofmolly
09-18-2011, 09:18:09 PM
Does a name remain on the Bad Trader list even after the "bad" trades have been reconciled?


When you compare that we have a few thousand registered traders & tnt's to the names on the list that accumulated over YEARS we've really got a great group!!

If you are on the list, come back & make it up, it depends on the situation what happens. In most cases we edit the listing to say "made up" but keep the name up there because I think members deserve to know that there was an issue in the past, but in some cases, when a trader has a long history of great trades, comes back, makes it up and continues on with great trades for a while, we may take the name down.

Sometimes members come back and want to make up the trades months & years later. That is a great thing, but sometimes the other trader is no longer trading & unreachable so a fix is not possible. Those names stay up on the list. Theory being, you've had X time to make it up its great that you are willing, but other traders have the right to know the history.

I think there are levels of bad traders. The scammmers that hit many boards all at once trying to get a big coupon score. Some pick one board and just keep trying to come back. These are scam artists and they make me so angry the traders here rock & dont deserve it!! :( just make a trade like everyone else and send your end. Its because of these types that we suggest holding your end when trading with a new trader or someone with minimal feedback.

Then there are traders who do not send their end because they get overwhelmed. They didnt mean to scam people but just cant handle trading and instead of asking for help and working it out they blow it all off.

Then, we have the traders who go MIA for various reasons. We always understand life before coupons, all we ask is accept that regardless of why, someone is out their end and they should have it made up to them. When any of the above things happen, it needs to be put out there that there was a trade issue.

For those that have a one time issue, trading here is still allowed because yes life happens which is why you can have 1 bad trade & still be a member. That is also why the list says if the member is banned or still trading.

bugface711 answers your question very nicely.

escalada77
09-20-2011, 07:30:50 AM
That is a great question too...I decided to conduct my first train and a member that was matched to me did not send an envie. I emailed a couple of times and she has been a trader for quite awhile. She has since logged on and still no response to my email or anything. I hate to leave bad feedback because life does happen, but if you have the time to log on here to at least check, whatever, then you can drop an email saying so sorry but I just can't do it. Just my opinion.

amylynne01
09-20-2011, 08:58:21 AM
That is a great question too...I decided to conduct my first train and a member that was matched to me did not send an envie. I emailed a couple of times and she has been a trader for quite awhile. She has since logged on and still no response to my email or anything. I hate to leave bad feedback because life does happen, but if you have the time to log on here to at least check, whatever, then you can drop an email saying so sorry but I just can't do it. Just my opinion.

Please fill out the bad trade report form (http://www.hotcouponworld.com/forums/warning-bad-trader-listing/254586-please-use-form-inside-file-bad-trade-reports.html) if your envie did not come in 2 weeks, and the trader made no effort to make it up. The bad trade mods keep track of who causes problems, and you might not be the only one that she hasn't sent to!

coupondad101
09-20-2011, 09:08:46 AM
don't forget that things happen in real life to people and there loved ones.

shelleyf
09-20-2011, 10:51:26 AM
don't forget that things happen in real life to people and there loved ones.

Yes unfortunately it does but if they are on here then they obviously aren't too upset about life happening. Also alot of the bad traders are on another site I go to scamming others at the same time. A person that has serious life problems wouldn't be logging on at all. They would be too busy trying to pick up the pieces of their circumstances. That is why the bad trade mods check to make sure they didn't log on before doing something about it.

anothershopper2
09-20-2011, 11:50:16 AM
hehe, thanks ladies (and gents).. I know this board is really great!! :) And I have been here since the start and with a lot of others here from the board(s) prior to that. Life does get in the way a lot, and one of the reasons I've been on and off the board the last few years. But, I was a little surprised to see over the years familiar names on the BT list. Anyhow, if it was a life issue... I hope everyone I do recognize is ok or on their way to being ok.

But I will say that with the limited number of trades I've done this year, I have had the remail two myself and one that was coming to me got completely lost :( The PO really hasn't been great at all. Maybe layoffs there and the losses are the big factor.

eosias35
09-20-2011, 11:55:46 AM
This just happened to me on another site. I sent 60 $3.00 Olay Regenerist coupons to someone and they were suppose to send me some Frees. Well low and behold 2 weeks later no envie for me...lol. Now just started the process of reporting her etc... I now learned my lesson, if the deal sounds too good, the odds are it is....lol

Gardencook
09-20-2011, 12:29:55 PM
All of the previous explanations are true, but sometimes people just have really short attention spans. We used to have a friend, who would spend unbelievable amounts of money on some new hobby that interested him. He tended to be RIDICULOUSLY tight with his money, so we were always astonished at the wads of money he would lay out... for a short while. Then suddenly you would never hear anymore about it. He had lost interest and the expensive hobby wasn't touched again. :bored1:
I think some people have so much fun trading for awhile that they sometimes get in over their heads and when it gets to be a lot of work to catch up, they suddenly become bored and don't care. That's the only conclusion I can reach on some of the experienced traders who suddenly quit responding without an explanation that something unexpected arose in their lives. :dontknow1:
I tend to be more the slow-and-steady type. I don't jump into things and get over my head, but I also tend to stick with things through the thick and thin times. It sometimes confuses people that I'm not "gung-ho" on something as soon as I start, but like the parable of the tortise and the hare, I'm still plugging along when exhausted hares are far behind me. :hysterical:

MsSweetCheeks
09-20-2011, 01:42:36 PM
I've been having trouble lately with the non-stop RAOK games. You send a person your address and then they don't even send an acknowledgement back. Then you sit back wondering if they are going to mail it. I think a person should take the time out and say I plan on getting it out to you such and such day. At least let me know that you read my e-mail. After a week and a half to two weeks if I haven't heard anything or gotten anything in the mail, then I e-mail them to see what is going on. Some of them will give some excuse and claim they will mail it and still nothing. I try to be fair and give people time. I usually will give another two weeks after that to see what happens. I've had to report 2 people in the last month. Right now I have one that I am starting to wonder if I will have to report. I will report anyone that is supposed to send to me and I never receive from. 4 weeks is more than enough time to get an envie out to someone. I know things happen, but a trader should communicate. If I tell someone I will mail it a certain day and something happens where I couldn't get it out on time. I will notify the person as soon as I can.

434Teresa
09-21-2011, 06:31:57 AM
don't forget that things happen in real life to people and there loved ones.

It dose to all of us about every day. If you know a trade is agreed on then get it ready to send then dont wait until the next day thinking I can get it ready before the mailman gets here in the morning.

I know it takes time to hunt down the coupons, cut them and all that but we know that before we agree to a trade.

Most of us are on here to help our family stay above water so want to keep our trades in good standing. So if you feel you have coupon burn out then dont trade for awhile.

To those that just want something for nothing sooner or later it will catch up with you in one way or another.

meggers
09-21-2011, 07:17:15 AM
I've been having trouble lately with the non-stop RAOK games. You send a person your address and then they don't even send an acknowledgement back. Then you sit back wondering if they are going to mail it. I think a person should take the time out and say I plan on getting it out to you such and such day. At least let me know that you read my e-mail. After a week and a half to two weeks if I haven't heard anything or gotten anything in the mail, then I e-mail them to see what is going on. Some of them will give some excuse and claim they will mail it and still nothing. I try to be fair and give people time. I usually will give another two weeks after that to see what happens. I've had to report 2 people in the last month. Right now I have one that I am starting to wonder if I will have to report. I will report anyone that is supposed to send to me and I never receive from. 4 weeks is more than enough time to get an envie out to someone. I know things happen, but a trader should communicate. If I tell someone I will mail it a certain day and something happens where I couldn't get it out on time. I will notify the person as soon as I can.


Glad you reported them. The ROAK game can attract newbies, so everyone needs to be sure & report any missing envies to the bad trade mods, suesaving and motherofmolly.

meggers
09-21-2011, 07:33:46 AM
don't forget that things happen in real life to people and there loved ones.


Yes, and I can't blame someone for forgetting all about a trade momentarily. That's one reason we do give them some time to make up the trade.

However, I'm reminded of a member who lost her son around Christmas in 2008 (? -I'm pretty sure). She logged on to let me know what had happened & that she would be delayed in making up her trades. And this was a devasting loss. :sad3:

That gave us the opportunity to make posts to let others know & to let the bad trade mods know & folks were incredibly understanding of her loss. We didn't expect her to set aside her grief to get her envies out & she actually came back long before I expected her to & got her trades out. Communication has always been the key in bad trade proceedings.

When I went on vacation, I let my traders know that feedback would be left when I returned & who to contact if any issues arose. But I also don't have 3 kids screaming "are we there yet," a DH who can't find his favorite vacation shirt & a phone ringing off the hook cause the dog sitter & house sitter have last minute questions.

Regardless though, there's a level of integrity that some have & some do not. Some may have been taught it, some may have to learn it & some just never grasp it. I'm just glad that our community has, for the most part, great members with great traders. :smile:

shans3boys
09-21-2011, 07:48:58 AM
My problem is that I don't always track my trades. I totally forgot that I had paid for some qs and hadn't gotten them - instead, I bought some in an auction. The trader contacted me, and offered a refund. Luckily for me, the qs have a longer expiration, and I can always use more of that product! I tried to use an Excel spreadsheet, but when I got busy on some trains, I was overwhelmed and lost track.

I always assume people are going to PM me if they have a problem with a trade. It's hard to go back to the right threads, even though I get emails. My email inbox gets full, but my PM Inbox is where I look first.

~~Who,Me?~~
09-21-2011, 08:46:43 AM
I see both sides of it. I agree that it's not that hard to stay off the bad list, but otoh, I have had life get in the way of couponing & online time, and sometimes things go awry. I also have gotten jacked a few times with trades, and I just shrugged it off rather than report it. I think that more people are like me--depending on the value of course, but more likely to just let it go and not report it, rather than reporting petty things unnecessarily, kwim?

But this site is by far the safest, imo, as far as trading and putting yourself out there.

Gardencook
09-21-2011, 05:24:28 PM
My problem is that I don't always track my trades.

Don't know if it will help any, but instead of a spreadsheet I keep a simple Word Document which is my Trading Diary. Every day I sit down and list the date with everything I've done at HCW. I bold-face all trader's names. I use one color when I mail the envie or am to receive an envie from another member. When the envie arrives, I leave feedback and then change the color of the trader's name. That way I can quickly glance over the list and tell by the color if any trades haven't concluded yet. Since I ride a lot of trains, I use a third color for things like train names and RAOK names, so I know what type of envie is in transit.
Every month or two, I start a new list so it doesn't get too long and hard to manage.